Kennett Collection Reduction sale

[nathanbs]

correct me if I'm wrong but there was a boat load of trees for sale and I for one would have never thought that i might only end up with one tree. Now I understand that some ended up with only one and some with none but for sake of argument it appeared that there was plenty to go around.

 

[Victrinia Ensor]

However people feel about how it all went down and what might have been better, I'm just incredibly grateful that there was such a large release of great trees into the community at large. Kudos to the KC!

Victrinia

 

[Paulkellum]

Yes, that's what I was trying to suggest - not one tree per person, but one tree per person until everyone had a chance. But then what happens if # people > # trees...there's always a potential issue.

The above might persuade some to skip the event but might encourage others who would feel like they had a better chance to get at least 1 decent tree.

Several in this thread have commented that they "got a good tree" or "were happy with what they got", but how would they have felt if there were in group 13 and all that was left was the $5000+ trees and the scraggly $50 pines? I guess it might depend on whether their budget was over or under $5000...

Chris

I would have been ok if I didn't get a tree I drive or fry to go to a bonsai show. It was same thing for me just there was a chance this time you might leave with something.

 

[Paulkellum]

Right. There is no perfect solution. And that's what makes this discussion good.

3 tree limit was a huge reason to not go. Add in the snow storm and a demanding schedule and not going was easy (for me).

1 tree limit is a no brainer for me. You aren't almost guaranteed to get at least 1 good tree with a 1 tree limit unless there are less people attending than trees for sale. That's a bigger risk for me. Plus a great deal on 1 tree suddenly becomes an overpriced tree when you consider fuel, meals, lodging, etc.

One per person fixes nothing and your not guaranteed anything. The Great trees might have been 80ish and the 3000 down group. Then we would be here saying only 80 people got great trees. People set themselves up for disappointment going having picked their 2 trees they wanted. This small little sale was in high demand and if people bought 1000 dollars and left empty handed so people bought 30k and left empty handed.

 

[lordy]

I think the format was good in terms of a 3 tree limit until all attendees got a crack. Then they opened it up free-for-all. The part I didnt like was that even after you chose your (up to) 3 trees, you could go pay, and then re-enter the area where the trees were. Imagine then that, like me, I get in after about 90 minutes of feeding frenzy. It was at times difficult to move around with 50 of the country's top and or well-to-do bonsai people. Remember the first group or 2 there were only 10 or 15 people in there, along with a lot of unchosen trees.
I wish they had restricted the shopping area to just the group that had waited their turn to go in and not competing with 50 others who may, or may not, have chosen their 3 trees yet.
I think those people should have either chosen their 3 and paid or lose their opportunity to continue to shop for the remaining time. There was nothing stopping people in the first 10 minutes from staying, looking, choosing, buying up to an hour and a half later. I think the lottery part was fair. Allowing everyone to stay and compete with the subsequent groups? not so much.
I still hold the experience as very valuable. I commend Doug Paul for doing the sale at all.

 

[CHUCHIN]

I would have loved a maple and an azalea... too bad I live ine South America.

If you traveled to Kenneth from South America now that would have been passion...There were guys in delaware from Toronto, Texas it was awesome!!! I enjoyed seeing the energy and passion this art drives in all of us...

 

[CHUCHIN]

correct me if I'm wrong but there was a boat load of trees for sale and I for one would have never thought that i might only end up with one tree. Now I understand that some ended up with only one and some with none but for sake of argument it appeared that there was plenty to go around.

There were approximately 380 Trees offered and approximately 150 attendees. Simple math tells me everyone could have walked away with atleast 2 trees. The exact figure is in between 2 and 3...This number changes obviously depending on the budget since there were specimens that cost in the upwards of 7,500 -19,000...

To answer your question yes there was more than enough to go around if you had money...and I am not talking retail money but the median price was 2,200 dollars

 

[al345900]

There were a lot of trees, and if you wanted to buy something just to buy you will find it. Including a $ 19,000 Juniper.

The material that was available in my turn was bigger or expensive.

The list of options I wanted was very limited, no Azaleas, no Junipers, no White Pines, no Yews, no Tropicals.

I was looking for a quality Japanese Black Pine, it has to be less than 62 inches (width+lenght+deep) to be able to checkin with Southwest for free. There were only 12 Japanese Black Pines that fit these characteristics.

I think this was a great opportunity to improve the quality of Bonsai in the United States and Canada.

 

[CHUCHIN]

However people feel about how it all went down and what might have been better, I'm just incredibly grateful that there was such a large release of great trees into the community at large. Kudos to the KC!

Victrinia

Victrinia,

Great point...I talked to Doug and thanked him for having this event and that it helped breath life and improved bonsai in America for many that stood no change of ever owning stuff like this... Yes they exist domestically but most are sitting and remain seated in private back yards.

This import drought has set us all back...Yes you can get trees but its like pulling teeth and nails. Just in the late 90's I could get a decent specimen for 800-1200 dollars. Now a days due to scarcity due to restrictions dealers want twice that...

Doug opened things up and whethher or not you got a tree that day bonsai in this country is elevated....most collections are improved...Most People are happier...

 

[nathanbs]

There were approximately 380 Trees offered and approximately 150 attendees. Simple math tells me everyone could have walked away with atleast 2 trees. The exact figure is in between 2 and 3...This number changes obviously depending on the budget since there were specimens that cost in the upwards of 7,500 -19,000...

To answer your question yes there was more than enough to go around if you had money...and I am not talking retail money but the median price was 2,200 dollars

I was just referring to Dons comment whereupon he was stating that if the rules said only one tree each round that people would have been turned off and not gone altogether because of the possibility that they would only get a shot at one tree.

 

[coh]

There were approximately 380 Trees offered and approximately 150 attendees. Simple math tells me everyone could have walked away with atleast 2 trees. The exact figure is in between 2 and 3...This number changes obviously depending on the budget since there were specimens that cost in the upwards of 7,500 -19,000...

To answer your question yes there was more than enough to go around if you had money...and I am not talking retail money but the median price was 2,200 dollars

OK...so with 380 trees and each person being able to pick 3 when they first get in...if everyone took 3 then the last 25 people (or so) would have nothing at all left to choose from. So how is that fairer than limiting each person to 1 until everyone has been in...if all 150 people chose 1, then there would still be 230 left to distribute by whatever method.

I also think allowing people to stay so that it was crowded when the later groups got in was unfair, it must have been very difficult to see the trees to make decisions.

I guess people knew in advance that they could potentially be essentially shut out by the lottery approach, so anyone who attended really has no basis to complain (except for the cheating that apparently occurred). Changing the method would have made some decide to not attend, but probably would have encouraged others. I'm sure it would have been successful either way.

Chris

 

[CHUCHIN]

OK...so with 380 trees and each person being able to pick 3 when they first get in...if everyone took 3 then the last 25 people (or so) would have nothing at all left to choose from. So how is that fairer than limiting each person to 1 until everyone has been in...if all 150 people chose 1, then there would still be 230 left to distribute by whatever method.

I also think allowing people to stay so that it was crowded when the later groups got in was unfair, it must have been very difficult to see the trees to make decisions.

I guess people knew in advance that they could potentially be essentially shut out by the lottery approach, so anyone who attended really has no basis to complain (except for the cheating that apparently occurred). Changing the method would have made some decide to not attend, but probably would have encouraged others. I'm sure it would have been successful either way.

Chris

Agreed successful either way and in my opinion it was. The goal was accomplished...Most people were happy. Some were not but agreed that everyone should have been prepared that when things are left too chance that a gamble isnt guaranteed. I knew that...I tried preparing a list and guess what I left with ZERO that was on my hit list...I am happy I got a couple of trees but it was absolutely pure luck...I thought let me keep trying this luck and played mega millions and guess what I lost...Someone in Maryland won though lol

 

[Don Blackmond]

I was just referring to Dons comment whereupon he was stating that if the rules said only one tree each round that people would have been turned off and not gone altogether because of the possibility that they would only get a shot at one tree.

well, there were 30 trees left over that did not sell, so no one was shut out.

My point was that a limit of 1 choice per round would have likely discouraged people from attending who would have had to travel long distances or incur significant expenses to attend. You spend $400 on a satsuki you think is worth $1000, but incur $800 in travel costs, not to mention taking a day off of work, etc. etc.

My point, which I evidently did not make clear, is that its a gamble and the lower the number the less appealing the gamble.

 

[Jester217300]

Yup, cost me almost $400, two days off work, and some mild insanity just to attend...

 

[amkhalid]

The part I didnt like was that even after you chose your (up to) 3 trees, you could go pay, and then re-enter the area where the trees were.

You're right, now that you point this out is is probably the biggest fault in the system. Definitely worth bringing up if a sale like this ever happens again.

Otherwise I think they did a good job managing a difficult task. Some people are just assholes and will do their best to cheat the system if there is the slightest opportunity. Peter Warren asked that we follow a Gentleman's Code, and apparently some couldn't handle that.

 

[nip]

I guess people knew in advance that they could potentially be essentially shut out by the lottery approach, so anyone who attended really has no basis to complain (except for the cheating that apparently occurred). Changing the method would have made some decide to not attend, but probably would have encouraged others. I'm sure it would have been successful either way.

I was wondering if any measures were taken to prevent fraudulent activity, doesn't sound like it. It's unfortunate that even a bonsai event must be closely monitored to impair cheating, but anytime rare or valuable items are being sold the risk is inherent.
A live auction with a limit per buyer would have been fun!

 

[BoneSci]

Just want to add my $0.02 story. I went with my Dad, who is not really into bonsai and was only interested in the $125 azaleas, but was an extra chance to get into an early group for me to get my choices. We ended up drawing the 11th and 12th groups respectively and spent a lot of time in the tent, watching the sold trees get crossed off the big poster of numbers they had there. As many have said, the majority of the trees were sold by this point, but there were still some great trees left, albeit more than a couple hundred dollars. My goal was to get one tree, more if I got lucky.

I ended up getting a larger azalea like I have never seen outside of the magazines. It was more than I wanted to spend, but I figured that I'd never get such a chance again. I could have bought (more like charged) a second as well, and kinda regret that when someone asked me if I planned on buying the tree I was looking at, I let him have it. I stayed till almost 1:30, well after most people had gone and there were still some azaleas in the $2000 range left. Suthin was there with me and seemed shocked at some of the trees (azaleas) that hadn't sold. We didn't really see anything wrong with them.

Overall, I thought it was very fair and am extremely grateful to have had the opportunity to get such an amazing japanese tree. The only problem is now the rest of my collection looks like crap!

Chris

 

[nip]

Hey Chris, Do you have a pic of your new azalea for us to drool over?

 

[BoneSci]

The first pic is the one I purchased. The gap on the left hand side is much more apparent in the pictures for some reason. I don't notice it as much in person. The nebari could be better, but it doesn't bother me. Pot by Sara Raynor (I think).

The next two pictures are ones that were still unclaimed as of about 1:15pm on Friday. I spent a lot of time considering the first of the two. I thought both of them would look much better in a couple years of attention to the unruly branching and arrangement. It got to the point that I was wondering what was wrong with these trees that they weren't sold. I felt like I was missing something.

Chris

 

[Dav4]

The first pic is the one I purchased. The gap on the left hand side is much more apparent in the pictures for some reason. I don't notice it as much in person. The nebari could be better, but it doesn't bother me. Pot by Sara Raynor (I think).

The next two pictures are ones that were still unclaimed as of about 1:15pm on Friday. I spent a lot of time considering the first of the two. I thought both of them would look much better in a couple years of attention to the unruly branching and arrangement. It got to the point that I was wondering what was wrong with these trees that they weren't sold. I felt like I was missing something.

Chris

The tree you ended up with is quite nice, with a great nebari and trunk. As far as the space on the left, you can either pull down a branch from above or encourage new branching in that area to fill the gap. The unclaimed trees look pretty good...how much were they asking for them?