Kiwi’s darkest day

[AlainK]

And I'm pretty worried about that.

Education.
Teaching values that are universal, secular, not religious.
Any, any religious schooling whatsoever is bound to lead to some weirdos eliminate the miscreants.
In both cases (Utrecht and Christchurch), it's about someone who, one way or another considered the others as miscreants, or impure, or papists, or whatever : had they been been educated with secular values, among people of all beliefs and origins, free from religious hocus-pocus, the chance they would have killed people in the name of "race" or "god" would have been limited.
Who needs a religious education to "love thy neighbour"? Who needs to fear the wrath of a "god" not to kill a brother, a stranger, an alien ?
This is the 21st century, not the middle ages, not the times of crusades or the 19th century far-west.
High time to get rid of religions and become rational thinking human beings.
No master, no god.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Fortunately, these kinds of events do illustrate that the nuts of the world can kill some of us, but not many as a percentage of any given population. That is not to minimize the horror, but rather to remind us that they are few, they convince very few others to take up their evil cause, and unite good people against them.

 

[Smoke]

When the guns are gone, they will resort to this.



They will get more brave



The country will mourn, and call for help, but the bad guy can't hear, nor does he want to. He is twisted and gets more brave.



Then raids Moms cabinets.



More twisted and wanting to inflict maximum damage.



And then, he becomes so sophisticated that no one can stop him. Those that want to do harm, WILL.



...and all the gun laws in the world will not stop him.......

 

[Bonsai Nut]

As a result of the measures, there is now about one weapon for every eight people in Australia and there has been a reduction of more than 50 per cent in the number of gunshot victims since 1996. (...)

Food for thought...

The elephant in the room is who the guns were taken away from.

In the case of the Australia gun buy-back program, the ownership of guns among legal, registered gun owners has not changed. What has changed is the number of illegal guns - particularly handguns - among the lower socio-economic segment of the population. Even here in the US, the majority of gun crime occurs in a small minority of locations, with a small segment of the population committing crime against the same small segment of the population.

I'm all for getting illegal guns off the street. But you don't accomplish this by making it more difficult for legal gun owners to follow the law.

I also think there is a huge difference between the majority of gun crime and the actions of terrorists. If people think buying a bunch of illegal hand-guns from neighborhoods in the inner city is going to protect them from, or reduce the incidence of, terrorist actions, they are sadly naive.

 

[Forsoothe!]

An armed society is a polite society.

 

[shinmai]

There is a fantastic article on the New Yorker website at https://www.newyorker.com/news/dail...d-shooting-and-the-great-man-theory-of-misery. I highly recommend it.

 

[Forsoothe!]

There is a fantastic article on the New Yorker website at https://www.newyorker.com/news/dail...d-shooting-and-the-great-man-theory-of-misery. I highly recommend it.

The article is itself racist. You can choose sides, you can find good people and bad people, righteous and wrong-headed leaders and followers. The murderers of any stripe are inherently selfish, granting themselves rights without obligation while dictating obligation without concurrent rights to "inferiors".

Every time I see someone of one race insist that someone of another race is a racist, I know which is which. The pot is looking in the mirror.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

There is a fantastic article on the New Yorker website at https://www.newyorker.com/news/dail...d-shooting-and-the-great-man-theory-of-misery. I highly recommend it.

I don't agree with the premise at all. I can't stand when people take the negative actions of a tiny minority of a population, and then stereotype the entire population as somehow supporting, or being complicit in, their actions - simply because they share the same skin color. The author goes from the actions of one crack-pot individual, to a global conspiracy of white nationalism, to suggesting anyone who voted for Donald Trump (46.1% of the country) is a racist. It is a really tired and offensive argument.

 

[shinmai]

The article is itself racist. You can choose sides, you can find good people and bad people, righteous and wrong-headed leaders and followers. The murderers of any stripe are inherently selfish, granting themselves rights without obligation while dictating obligation without concurrent rights to "inferiors".

Every time I see someone of one race insist that someone of another race is a racist, I know which is which. The pot is looking in the mirror.

I think perhaps you confuse that metaphor with the pot calling the kettle black.
The author’s point is that a consistent pattern has emerged among recent mass shooters, in that they take upon themselves the agency to right a world they believe to have gone wrong.
I didn’t know until I got to the bottom of the page that the author happened to be black. I am by no means suggesting that every claim of racism, or that some differential is race-based, is legitimate—in fact, I often think it’s a cheap crutch. I think the second sentence of the last paragraph was an intellectual cheap shot, but carve out that reference and it hangs together. The fundamental point is that these ‘nationalists’ see themselves as brave actors defending us against imagined enemies, who exist in small, not dangerous, numbers—with no demonstrated hostile intent.
We went from Carlyle’s notion of “great men” determining our destiny to a more modern view that we charted our path by consensus. The salient point is that these lunatics think they’re saving us all from some “invader” that doesn’t exist. This is the hardest part to get one’s head around—the majority of us want to at least tolerate, maybe actually accept or [God forbid] embrace people who are different from us. These self-styled ‘saviors’ think that they are saving us from ourselves because we are too weak, blind, or lazy to confront the ‘existential threat’ comprised of whatever target group they choose. The common thread in their manifestos is that they need to act because no one else has the will.

 

[Forsoothe!]

I think perhaps you confuse that metaphor with the pot calling the kettle black.

Not confused at all, I am saying clearly that he is accusing others of his own guilt, and believing himself guilt-free. That is much different than saying that the pot and kettle are alike. He dislikes whites, and that is offensive. I am very, very, very, tired of being called a racist by someone who doesn't know me. I know very few white people who have any relatives who were here before the 1880's. I grew up poor. The term White Privilege also offends me. I take people as they are and expect the same from them. The people who insist upon dividing this country into them and us have a good chance of tearing this country apart and need to called what they are: not good Americans. You can't call people bad names and expect them to like you. The author is every bit as destructive of our society as the murderer. A society is group of people who agree to live together under a mutually-acceptable set of rules. The rules begin with not attacking others for misdeeds of a third party.

Yes, the crazies think they are bravely saving us from, fill-in-the-blank. There will always be people with defective thinking, and that's why we will always need mental hospitals to house and treat their defects. And blaming some third party group of people for the actions of lunatics will always incite the third party to its own defense.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

they take upon themselves the agency to right a world they believe to have gone wrong.

This isn't the problem. It's using VIOLENCE to achieve your means that is the problem. We are a country that values Freedom of Speech. We protect speech that we disagree with - even if we find it offensive.

However speech without an audience is meaningless. Extremists on all sides of the political multiverse have trouble getting anyone to listen to them because their ideas are so far out of the mainstream. So they have to do outrageous things to get the PRESS to give them a stage. In some cases these stunts are relatively harmless... like chaining themselves to a tree or throwing blood on the stairs of the Supreme Court. But in some cases they resort to assault... and even mass murder. To suggest that these actions only belong to one segment of society is to be either naive or hopelessly biased.

The irony is that the author of the article doesn't understand he is guilty of the behavior he is accusing others of committing. He is so busy embracing negative stereotypes towards others... and accusing people of being guilty of embracing negative stereotypes towards himself. As I said before, to cut and paste quotes from some crack-pot extremist, and to suggest that they apply - even slightly - to a broader population is offensive at the same time as being factually untrue.

“The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.” - George Orwell

Trust me, there is PLENTY of racism alive and well in the US today... and I condemn it all regardless of the source and the target.

 

[Smoke]

I find it offensive that New Zealand decided to ban assault rifles. They should have banned white people, that's the real problem.

America doesn't need a fence to keep migrants out, what it needs is a man with the balls to say no more welfare for the migrants.....problem solved.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

America doesn't need a fence to keep migrants out, what it needs is a man with the balls to say no more welfare for the migrants.....problem solved.

It was tried...

https://ballotpedia.org/California_..._Aliens_Ineligible_for_Public_Benefits_(1994)

 

[Smoke]

It was tried...

https://ballotpedia.org/California_..._Aliens_Ineligible_for_Public_Benefits_(1994)

I love the map they provide showing how the state voted. That's why the electoral college can never go away. No one would have a voice.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I love the map they provide showing how the state voted. That's why the electoral college can never go away. No one would have a voice.

In California, the most liberal state in the country, if 59% of voters approve something.... ANYTHING... odds are it is a pretty good idea.

Unfortunately, all the democracy in the world won't save you if you have judges who legislate from the bench. A handful of people who determine - not the application of the law - but what fits their agenda. And since a different handful of people in state government decide not to take the case to court... 59% of voters never learned WHY this law was unconstitutional. Think about it... California is about 15% of the population of the entire country, and there are no checks and balances against the power of the judiciary to over-rule... everything.

Sad when illegal aliens, citizens of other countries, have more benefits than our own citizens. They can show up an emergency room with the flu... and get treated for free. I read a funny article not too long ago from a satirist asking about what it would take to renounce US citizenship... and just keep living here as an illegal alien.

In OC, the newest issue isn't about illegal aliens from Mexico or Central America... it's about illegal aliens from China. The word is out that all you have to do is rent an apartment in Irvine, and you can send your child to school in America for free. Don't get me started about the state universities... turning away US citizens to make room for illegal aliens. In my opinion, if a single student in California gets turned away from any university for any reason - while an illegal alien (of any race, creed or culture) is accepted at the same university - someone needs to go to jail. Our tax dollars being perverted.

 

[Smoke]

 

[my nellie]

... ...America doesn't need a fence to keep migrants out, what it needs is a man with the balls to say no more welfare for the migrants.....problem solved.

The same applies here in my small country!

... ...Sad when illegal aliens, citizens of other countries, have more benefits than our own citizens. They can show up an emergency room with the flu... and get treated for free. I read a funny article not too long ago from a satirist asking about what it would take to renounce US citizenship... and just keep living here as an illegal alien. (This has been effected in my country in view of the upcoming national elections)
... ...The word is out that all you have to do is rent an apartment in Irvine, and you can send your child to school in America for free. Don't get me started about the state universities... turning away US citizens to make room for illegal aliens. In my opinion, if a single student in California gets turned away from any university for any reason - while an illegal alien (of any race, creed or culture) is accepted at the same university - someone needs to go to jail. Our tax dollars being perverted.

The same applies here in my small country!
And the outrageous is this..... The majority of Greeks we are Christians Orthodox (this is declared in our Constitution) and "our" judges conforming to the Government's demands legislate that we should draw down the icons of Christ of Virgin Mary from schools, from court of justice and public services because the illegal aliens are "offended"
And the same goes to other countries, too.
What do you think about it? Is it mere coincidence or it is not? And if it is not, then what is happening? What/Who is behind this world wide scenario?

 

[Forsoothe!]

The same applies here in my small country!
The same applies here in my small country!
And the outrageous is this..... The majority of Greeks we are Christians Orthodox (this is declared in our Constitution) and "our" judges conforming to the Government's demands legislate that we should draw down the icons of Christ of Virgin Mary from schools, from court of justice and public services because the illegal aliens are "offended"
And the same goes to other countries, too.
What do you think about it? Is it mere coincidence or it is not? And if it is not, then what is happening? What/Who is behind this world wide scenario?

Sounds like the pressure groups that operate behind the scenes have more clout with politicians than tax-paying citizens in Greece. And the US, UK, Canada, France, Italy, Germany... the rest of the world?

It's probably just a coincidence that most politicians are lawyers, but remember what Shakespeare said to do first, "if you want justice..."?

 

[Tentakelaertje]

tax-paying citizens in Greece

HAHAHA that's a good one!

 

[MichaelS]

The same applies here in my small country!
The same applies here in my small country!
And the outrageous is this..... The majority of Greeks we are Christians Orthodox (this is declared in our Constitution) and "our" judges conforming to the Government's demands legislate that we should draw down the icons of Christ of Virgin Mary from schools, from court of justice and public services because the illegal aliens are "offended"
And the same goes to other countries, too.
What do you think about it? Is it mere coincidence or it is not? And if it is not, then what is happening? What/Who is behind this world wide scenario?

It's NO coincidence. Finally some of you guys and gals are starting to realize what is happening. (I tried to warn you on the climate thread) Europe (particularly Germany and Sweden but also Italy France UK Australia US although luckily not bad yet), are so far up their politically correct holes that their culture is beginning to die out and being supplanted by another (usually worse) culture. When Angela Merkel rushes to grab a German flag from one of her ministers for fear of offending ( yes don't wave a fucking German flag in Germany!!!) you know something is really rotten. When the Swedes consider it a chargeable offence to put the word refugees in quote marks (''''), you know something is rotten. When people smugglers ship ''refugees'' (mostly young and mid-aged men of course) off the coast of Africa after paying $1500.....wait for it.....TWELVE MILES FROM THE COAST OF NTH AFRICA when they call the Italians to tell them they are in distress, and there is no accountability, you know something is rotten. When a German politician says it's their destiny to become Islamic and this is a GOOD THING!!!!. , you know something is rotten. All this has come about because of the sanctimonious, elitist, self righteous, virtue signalling left which has traditionally protested against the establishment has now BECOME the establishment and is now implementing their ridiculous - and dangerous ideologies into law. Europe is losing it's traditional culture, Paris is fucked. Parts of Italy are fucked. The EU should be disbanded immediately. Britain needs to leave the EU immediately. Immigration should be rigorously controlled. I used to think Trump was crazy, I Now think the US should count themselves lucky to have him. I once voted for the Greens Party. I now think they are a bunch of lunatics and fringe dwellers which must be stopped from getting anywhere near power. They would destroy out lives quick enough to make your head spin. But notice also that now there is a push back to all this insanity. It's world wide, it's in direct proportion to and exists BECAUSE OF the stupid leftist ideology and it's growing. If we don't return to rationality and get away from this liberal hive mind, we will see more of the crazy white nationalist murderers coming out like we did in New Zealand AND more of the crazy brainwashed Islamic murderers doing their handy work in our own countries.