Kiwi's Blue Spruce

[KiwiPlantGuy]

@KiwiPlantGuy this proposal isn't too bad, EXCEPT, where suggested to prune back to orange line - do it AFTER back budding forms. If you try to prune to force back budding, you will delay back budding. Let the branches extend, they will form back buds naturally, THEN AFTER the back buds form, prune back to the orange line.



Lowering the apex makes the tree look older, the trunk look larger in diameter, and helps with creating taper. I have a blue spruce from overgrown, pot bound nursery material. Take your time with it, I did major root work to get it into a Anderson flat. It has taken 3 years to recover vigor after that much root work. So give yours time. You want shining blue new buds everywhere before your next round of pruning.

Hi Leo,
Thank you for your advice, always good to hear others opinions, and yes the strong blue growth is what I am looking for.
Charles

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Hi all,
After much humming and haaaaa-ing, I decided to take on all advice to give this a haircut some more. Below were the styling options I created, and the last photo of the “finished” product. Now I wait for a year or 2, and see how it responds.



I agree that the left branch is a little heavy on foliage, but I think I pruned enough for now .
Charles

 

[Adair M]

With conifers, I try to keep as many branches on the tree as possible, and only remove “problem branches. Foliage is the tree’s food factory, and by removing branches and foliage, you’re starving the tree. Fertilizer is not food for the tree, sunlight is.

You have severely weakened this tree. Leave it alone for now.

And... in an earlier post, you said you didn’t have any copper wire. So, you used zip ties as guy wires. Well, take the time to find a source for copper wire. If you’re going to do conifers, you need to become proficient in wiring, and copper is far superior to any other method. Guy wiring is a supplement technique to wiring, not a substitute for it.

 

[sorce]

That's a great trunkline.

Leave it all for now. Ignore styling the future Jin branches, just leave em for health.
Focus on baby bending what new growth can make your tree up there.


Long game. Dope game!

That trunk gets way bigger and older when you have the canopy up there.

Sorce

 

[Potawatomi13]

Fertilizer is not food for the tree

So WHAT is it then?

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

With conifers, I try to keep as many branches on the tree as possible, and only remove “problem branches. Foliage is the tree’s food factory, and by removing branches and foliage, you’re starving the tree. Fertilizer is not food for the tree, sunlight is.

You have severely weakened this tree. Leave it alone for now.

And... in an earlier post, you said you didn’t have any copper wire. So, you used zip ties as guy wires. Well, take the time to find a source for copper wire. If you’re going to do conifers, you need to become proficient in wiring, and copper is far superior to any other method. Guy wiring is a supplement technique to wiring, not a substitute for it.

Hi AdairM,
Thank you for your comments. I take them onboard and learn how to do better as I gain more skills. With six months to go this season maybe some backbudding ready for Spring 2020 would be great.
As per the copper wire - yes good point, and I will make it my new year goal to find a copper wire source, or get some locally and anneal it myself. It does seem that I have a few conifers and pines underway lol.
Hope you can return to my thread a couple years down the track, to see and critique its progress.
Charles

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

That's a great trunkline.

Leave it all for now. Ignore styling the future Jin branches, just leave em for health.
Focus on baby bending what new growth can make your tree up there.
View attachment 272335

Long game. Dope game!

That trunk gets way bigger and older when you have the canopy up there.

Sorce

Hi Sorce,
Thank you for your comments and support. I think your design for its future might be a little rash, but hey, 10 years down the track, who knows how it will look.
Yep, definitely no touchy for this tree now for a year or two.
Also, would you be able to do me a favour, and change the name of my thread to -
Kiwi’s Blue Spruce. Many thanks if possible as that “yamadori” thing bugs me .
Charles

 

[Tentakelaertje]

So WHAT is it then?

Food for the funghi and bacteria that feed the tree.

 

[Adair M]

So WHAT is it then?

My point is if the tree has no foliage, it can’t manufacture the sugars it needs to grow.

 

[Adair M]

Hi AdairM,
Thank you for your comments. I take them onboard and learn how to do better as I gain more skills. With six months to go this season maybe some backbudding ready for Spring 2020 would be great.
As per the copper wire - yes good point, and I will make it my new year goal to find a copper wire source, or get some locally and anneal it myself. It does seem that I have a few conifers and pines underway lol.
Hope you can return to my thread a couple years down the track, to see and critique its progress.
Charles

Indeed, I hope to see this tree happy and strong, too! It just seems “overworked” right now.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Hi Sorce,
Thank you for your comments and support. I think your design for its future might be a little rash, but hey, 10 years down the track, who knows how it will look.
Yep, definitely no touchy for this tree now for a year or two.
Also, would you be able to do me a favour, and change the name of my thread to -
Kiwi’s Blue Spruce. Many thanks if possible as that “yamadori” thing bugs me .
Charles

Hi Sorce,
Thank you for this, removes my rookie thread title, so this can progress onwards.
Charles

 

[MHBonsai]

How did this one respond this summer? Cheers

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

How did this one respond this summer? Cheers

Hi,
I will have to go out at the weekend to take a photo. Got a few back buds, although doesn’t really look any different as I pruned it after the new growth, and don’t plan on pruning this anytime soon.
Charles

 

[MichaelS]

Food for the funghi and bacteria that feed the tree.

NO. It's food for the tree. Fungi and bacteria don't feed trees (except for mycorrhizae) They mineralize proteins into ammonium N that the tree can take up. They don't care about trees. Manufactured fertilizers bypass this process.
I agree with Adair that too many people cut off too much and wait for the tree to ''grow'' into a bonsai. This is the wrong approach. Instead of flourishing , the tree will go into survival mode and stagnate because it does not have enough light capturing abilities and cannot make carbs efficiently. Root growth ceases. It's just bad all round. You should just remove a little here and there, maybe reduce lengths of strong branches for balance and the bonsai slowly evolves. Haste makes waste.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Not saying exactly what will happen with your tree, but you have a multi-year wait, during which I would suggest only wiring, no significant pruning. My experience below.

I have a P. pungens, blue spruce from old landscape material. I over pruned it. I have been waiting, so far 2 summers, and not much in the way of back budding. I am afraid it may take as many as 5 or more seasons for the tree to recover. Yes I got a little back budding, but none where I need it. So it sits in full sun, and waits. The photo is from June 2019, you can see the "Blue Shiners", of the new growth, all at the ends of remaining foliage. So far no interior back budding. So it needs more sun, more fertilizer and another season or two to begin to get interior back budding. The more active growing points out at the edges, the more energy for interior back budding. So I wait. Spruce are like that. If you do drastic work, expect to have to set it aside to recover, and begin to grow vigorously again, and waiting 5 years is not uncommon.

 

[Tentakelaertje]

NO. It's food for the tree. Fungi and bacteria don't feed trees (except for mycorrhizae) They mineralize proteins into ammonium N that the tree can take up. They don't care about trees. Manufactured fertilizers bypass this process.
I agree with Adair that too many people cut off too much and wait for the tree to ''grow'' into a bonsai. This is the wrong approach. Instead of flourishing , the tree will go into survival mode and stagnate because it does not have enough light capturing abilities and cannot make carbs efficiently. Root growth ceases. It's just bad all round. You should just remove a little here and there, maybe reduce lengths of strong branches for balance and the bonsai slowly evolves. Haste makes waste.

Indirectly, yes. I said "food for the funghi and bacteria that feed the tree", not food for all of the bacteria and funghi. You say they don't care about the trees, but there is a known mutually beneficial relationship going on between funghi and plants where they feed eachother.

I completely agree with the rest though, foliage is very important. Food, yes

 

[Potawatomi13]

My point is if the tree has no foliage, it can’t manufacture the sugars it needs to grow.

THAT made sense. The other didn't.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Update after Spring growth.
As @Adair M has stated earlier in this thread, that copper wire is best, I removed the zip tie guy wires and instantly the left branch has rebounded lol.
Lots of Spring growth which I am really happy about. Interestingly I have now found out this tree is a dwarf version of Picea pungens glauca (can’t remember the cultivar) and this and the other 2 I have do not grow upwards like normal Blue Spruce.
From here, there is a back branch which I am not happy with, finding copper wire, and start chasing back the foliage next Summer.



Also I tried injuring the rootstock part of the trunk on the right to get callousing to reduce the reverse taper, but hasn’t worked much, I used snips to do multiple injuries through the bark. More of it is the plan.
Comments welcome,
Charles

 

[Adair M]

.Part of the reason wiring using spiral wiring works is because of the “cutting in” creates a bit of callous tissue. This additional tissue helps to hold the branch in it’s new position.

But... spruce branches are very springy! They take a long time to set into their new positions. Expect to wire, remove wire, re-wire, etc for several years. Actually, new growth will need to be wired, so it’s continuous maintenance.

 

[Colorado]

.Part of the reason wiring using spiral wiring works is because of the “cutting in” creates a bit of callous tissue. This additional tissue helps to hold the branch in it’s new position.

But... spruce branches are very springy! They take a long time to set into their new positions. Expect to wire, remove wire, re-wire, etc for several years. Actually, new growth will need to be wired, so it’s continuous maintenance.

Agreed. The current setup does not look promising...