Kiyo Hime disease?

Messages
235
Reaction score
194
Location
Asheville NC
USDA Zone
7a
20190512_154235.jpg20190316_165610.jpg20190316_165536.jpg

Whatever it is it seems to be fine, ive had this tree for 3 years now, the second picture i rubbed some neem oil on the trunk and it went back to white in the first picture after a few months.and is pretty vigorous right now, except it has some leaf burn from over fertilizing last month
 

ysrgrathe

Shohin
Messages
419
Reaction score
494
Location
CA
USDA Zone
9b
Why do you think it has a problem?
 

Shibui

Masterpiece
Messages
2,043
Reaction score
3,600
Location
Yackandandah, Australia
USDA Zone
9?
I'd be pretty confident that the white part of the trunk is the rootstock and the difference in bark colour of the 2 different varieties is showing up now. JM varieties are often grafted onto standard JM seedlings. The difference in colour is one of the reasons bonsai growers try to avoid grafted trees.
 
Messages
235
Reaction score
194
Location
Asheville NC
USDA Zone
7a
I'd be pretty confident that the white part of the trunk is the rootstock and the difference in bark colour of the 2 different varieties is showing up now. JM varieties are often grafted onto standard JM seedlings. The difference in colour is one of the reasons bonsai growers try to avoid grafted trees.
ok so the bonsai farmer that claims he gets original stock lied to me im guessing....So its not a kiyo hime but a mixture of multiple JM's?
 

Mellow Mullet

Masterpiece
Messages
3,419
Reaction score
8,499
Location
Mobile, Alabama-The Heart of Dixie
USDA Zone
8-9
ok so the bonsai farmer that claims he gets original stock lied to me im guessing....So its not a kiyo hime but a mixture of multiple JM's?
Yes, sort of, a lot of "fancier" cultivars are grafted on to plain Japanese Maple root stock as some are very hard to root. Kiyohime is very easy to root, but they are grafted a lot too. So what you have is kiyo grafted on green Japanese roots. The graft doesn't look all that bad.
 
Messages
235
Reaction score
194
Location
Asheville NC
USDA Zone
7a
Yes, sort of, a lot of "fancier" cultivars are grafted on to plain Japanese Maple root stock as some are very hard to root. Kiyohime is very easy to root, but they are grafted a lot too. So what you have is kiyo grafted on green Japanese roots. The graft doesn't look all that bad.
but that bleached color will never go away, is there a tree paint that i can do to cover it up?
 

Mellow Mullet

Masterpiece
Messages
3,419
Reaction score
8,499
Location
Mobile, Alabama-The Heart of Dixie
USDA Zone
8-9
but that bleached color will never go away, is there a tree paint that i can do to cover it up?
Never heard of tree paint, but why would you want to paint it? Your tree is starting to form mature bark, which is a grayish-white or a grayish-cream color for most of the Japanese maple cultivars. Eventually the entire tree will have that color to it, the green color is only present on young trees and new growth. The root stock is probably a little older than the scion so it is barking up now, eventually the scion will too as you can see it starting as white "splotches" here and there. Both parts will be the same color and you will hardly notice it (the graft).
 

rockm

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
9,514
Reaction score
11,985
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
but that bleached color will never go away, is there a tree paint that i can do to cover it up?
Um, the white bark is DESIRABLE for a maple. It doesn't develop until the tree gets a few years under its belt. You don't want the bark to remain green. That's a sign of immaturity, which is not what bonsai are meant to convey. This "discoloration" isn't a bad thing. It's part of the growth process for Japanese maples. It will spread over the trunk in the coming years. The rootstock is older than the scion (top part) grafted onto it. That means it will change soonest. The process is already beginning on the top however.

Leave this alone and for God's sake don't paint the tree.

 

petegreg

Masterpiece
Messages
2,735
Reaction score
3,739
Location
Slovakia
USDA Zone
6a
This tree has two different sides. One with a browning bark and one with a pale grey (sediments on the?) bark. I think watering is an issue and this can be solved easily with a tooth brush and vinegar.
 
D

Deleted member 21616

Guest
+1 for what @Mellow Mullet and @rockm said

as an aside, i would place that tree lower in the pot. It is too late to do that now, so I would add a layer of sphagnum on the surface (especially around around the trunk) for now, and adjust the placement of tree when you repot at the appropriate time of year. Vendors sometimes pot trees high like this to expose roots, because the idea of exposed roots is something that people often have in mind as a valuable feature when they come to the hobby. It is a valuable feature, but this tree is too young to be showing those roots in my opinion.

I would want as many roots as possible emerging from the same horizontal circumference. You currently have that circumference exposed, with a dozen roots emerging from it. Because it is exposed, new roots will not emerge along that same horizontal axis (roots tend to emerge-and-survive below the surface of the soil). By lowering the tree and by pruning back some of the roots when repotting, you can encourage new roots to emerge where you want them.

I love kiyo hime. Like koto hime, they produce very straight growth, but also back bud vigorously. If this were my tree, I would consider this trunk-line (see attached) for the future, or something similar. But I would not do this before that left branch (=currently your main trunk, it seems) thickens the lowest portion of the trunk a bit more, helping to conceal whatever is happening in the area of the trunk that currently and rightly bothers your eye

if that lowest portion continues to bother you in the future (i.e. in 3-4 years from now), possibly because of swelling, I would consider grafting (thread graft) more kiyo hime below the 'graft line', creating a multi-trunk tree that will conceal the area currently in question

just thinking out loud :)
 

Attachments

Last edited by a moderator:

rockm

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
9,514
Reaction score
11,985
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
This tree has two different sides. One with a browning bark and one with a pale grey (sediments on the?) bark. I think watering is an issue and this can be solved easily with a tooth brush and vinegar.
Nope. If you take a brush to that "discoloration" and scrub hard enough to remove it, you will take the bark off down past the cambium and seriously injure the tree. That color is NOT sediment. It is bark...
 

petegreg

Masterpiece
Messages
2,735
Reaction score
3,739
Location
Slovakia
USDA Zone
6a
Nope. If you take a brush to that "discoloration" and scrub hard enough to remove it, you will take the bark off down past the cambium and seriously injure the tree. That color is NOT sediment. It is bark...
Hmmm, looking at the very first picture...
lt looks like a white sock, the left portion of nebari is 2/3 different from the rest of...
But I might be wrong, sure.
 

ysrgrathe

Shohin
Messages
419
Reaction score
494
Location
CA
USDA Zone
9b
You can apply diluted lime sulfur to maple trunks, it can help make the whole tree white more quickly. Usually done while dormant as it is too strong for the leaves. Mach5 has posted on this.
 

rockm

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
9,514
Reaction score
11,985
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
Hmmm, looking at the very first picture...
lt looks like a white sock, the left portion of nebari is 2/3 different from the rest of...
But I might be wrong, sure.
Well, yeah. Half the trunk has more mature bark, the other half is still developing it.
 
Messages
235
Reaction score
194
Location
Asheville NC
USDA Zone
7a
+1 for what @Mellow Mullet and @rockm said

as an aside, i would place that tree lower in the pot. It is too late to do that now, so I would add a layer of sphagnum on the surface (especially around around the trunk) for now, and adjust the placement of tree when you repot at the appropriate time of year. Vendors sometimes pot trees high like this to expose roots, because the idea of exposed roots is something that people often have in mind as a valuable feature when they come to the hobby. It is a valuable feature, but this tree is too young to be showing those roots in my opinion.

I would want as many roots as possible emerging from the same horizontal circumference. You currently have that circumference exposed, with a dozen roots emerging from it. Because it is exposed, new roots will not emerge along that same horizontal axis (roots tend to emerge-and-survive below the surface of the soil). By lowering the tree and by pruning back some of the roots when repotting, you can encourage new roots to emerge where you want them.

I love kiyo hime. Like koto hime, they produce very straight growth, but also back bud vigorously. If this were my tree, I would consider this trunk-line (see attached) for the future, or something similar. But I would not do this before that left branch (=currently your main trunk, it seems) thickens the lowest portion of the trunk a bit more, helping to conceal whatever is happening in the area of the trunk that currently and rightly bothers your eye

if that lowest portion continues to bother you in the future (i.e. in 3-4 years from now), possibly because of swelling, I would consider grafting (thread graft) more kiyo hime below the 'graft line', creating a multi-trunk tree that will conceal the area currently in question

just thinking out loud :)
So when I first purchased this tree 2 years ago I wanted to do a root over rock maple after a few years with it and cutting back alot of the branches, it used to be styled as a broom I don't know if I want to still go that route, i will definitely be repotting it next year, and i was thinking of up potting it to continue the growth
 
Messages
235
Reaction score
194
Location
Asheville NC
USDA Zone
7a
well things took a turn for the worse and my entire collection of 8 trees may be screwed, so this past spring and summer I have been living in a house where the property is completely canopied by 4 enormous black walnut trees. Since I have 2 degrees in computer science and accounting I didn't think twice about how they could affect my trees. I have since moved to a place that has 0 black walnuts on the property but I think it might be too late. I know its late in the season but do you think an emergency repot could heal this tree?20190326_113011.jpg20190805_130744.jpg20190829_020750.jpg
 

rodeolthr

Mame
Messages
150
Reaction score
120
Location
Seattle, WA
USDA Zone
8a
I personally would repot just to adjust the level at which the tree sits. As far as the tree itself, it looks completely normal for this time of year. Is there something that you think appears to be wrong with it?
 

ysrgrathe

Shohin
Messages
419
Reaction score
494
Location
CA
USDA Zone
9b
+1. I agree the tree was potted too high so some of your surface roots are likely dead, which is too bad, but otherwise looks healthy. (Best to hide that nebari while it is developing!) My kotohime also tend to lose leaves late summer unless I protect from intense sun and wind, but it doesn't affect the health of the tree.
 
Messages
235
Reaction score
194
Location
Asheville NC
USDA Zone
7a
I personally would repot just to adjust the level at which the tree sits. As far as the tree itself, it looks completely normal for this time of year. Is there something that you think appears to be wrong with it?
according to the guys at the local nursery and the arborist at the local arboretum and research on the internet , black walnut trees emit a toxin onto other trees beneath them, its called the juglone toxin and it can stunt the growth and sometimes kill other trees. bonsai are even more sensitive to it. I really hope you are right about my tree being ok, the last thing I want to do is start all over on my trees and all the money and hard work I have invested in them. The future of this tree is uncertain but if it lives, my plan is to air layer or grow from cuttings one of the branches, haven't decided yet so I can have one that is not a graft.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Bolero Koto-Hime...Kiyo-Hime Maples 8
lordy Koto hime or kiyo hime? Maples 2
Alex DeRuiter Japanese Maple Kiyo Hime Maples 34
Dzhokar Koto Hime - when to wire? Maples 11
T Kaori Hime Osmanthus - Any Tips? Miscellaneous / Other 0
Similar threads





Top Bottom