KK's questionnaire

Attila Soos

Omono
Messages
1,804
Reaction score
54
Location
Los Angeles (Altadena), CA
USDA Zone
9
KK,

the average European bonsaiist is NOT interested in what you are doing. They are not even really interested what other Europeans are doing.

It is all even then, since the average American in general is not interested in ANYTHING outside North America. That's why we (Americans) never learn to speak any other language - heck we never even knew that there are other languages, we thought that the whole world speaks English:)

America will always be important to the rest of the world - including bonsai- for the simple reason that a very large part of the material wealth of the world is concentrated in this country. Art always follows the money, even when the money doesn't appreciate art enough.
 
Last edited:

Attila Soos

Omono
Messages
1,804
Reaction score
54
Location
Los Angeles (Altadena), CA
USDA Zone
9
Art always follows the money, even when the money doesn't appreciate art enough.

Look what happened in New York in the 20th century.
Before that, Paris was the world capital of all arts. Every artist wanted to live in Paris.

Then, in the 20th century, as the wealth of this Nation grew, New York became the arts capital of the world.
 

greerhw

Omono
Messages
1,976
Reaction score
15
Without getting on my soapbox, let me paint a simple picture with one swipe of a very large brush. Money and greed keep the earth spinning.

Harry
 

pauldogx

Mame
Messages
137
Reaction score
1
Location
Eastern PA USA
USDA Zone
6b
Without getting on my soapbox, let me paint a simple picture with one swipe of a very large brush. Money and greed keep the earth spinning.

Harry

Damn---and I thought it was gravity. Disappointing.
 

fredtruck

Omono
Messages
1,232
Reaction score
2,464
Location
West Des Moines, IA
USDA Zone
5
Actually, the notion that art is money has been around a long time. Or, an alternative form of money. Check out Thorsten Veblen, "The Rise of the Leisure Class."
 

Graydon

Chumono
Messages
717
Reaction score
11
Actually, the notion that art is money has been around a long time. Or, an alternative form of money. Check out Thorsten Veblen, "The Rise of the Leisure Class."

Must have been reading my mind. Thanks for posting!
 

king kong

Banned
Messages
356
Reaction score
0
Another subject my friend mentioned was that it is not unusual to see the aristocrats of various countries get involved in bonsai collections like Prime Ministers, Kings and noble types. Anything to this? Also, if you had to pick one plant species, regardless of climate, what would be your first choice from the USA?
 

JasonG

Chumono
Messages
786
Reaction score
18
Location
NW Oregon
It is all even then, since the average American in general is not interested in ANYTHING outside North America. That's why we (Americans) never learn to speak any other language - heck we never even knew that there are other languages, we thought that the whole world speaks English:)

Hi Attila,

I am not sure I agree with the above, in a bonsai sense. America as a whole is very far behind Europe and Japan (Asia) in Bonsai. We have many generations to go to get even close to these other countries. We have to look at Europe and Japan to see what they are doing inorder to better our future of bonsai. Japan is leading the world in bonsai, look at many of the books and magazines, they are still producing very killer bonsai, bonsai that is not cookie cutter. They hold the techniques and secrets that not many know about in America.
Europe is not far off of Asia, the material coming out of the Alps, Italy and other parts are phenominal. We would be complete idiots to not be interested in what they are doing, either that or one is just not serious about bonsai. Europe has and amazing collection of worldclass artist's and trees, more so than America by far. Hopefully one day we are able to mentioned in the same breath as them.

In America we have a wealth of land to collect, but really only certain parts of the country have the right type of ground to compete with the twisty gnarly pines and junipers you see in Japan and Europe. We as American bonsai folks need to get these old collected trees to a showable state to get credability in the bonsai world.
Hundereds of thousands of trees were collected throughout the Rockies in the 50's thru the 80's.....many of which died. I have heard plenty of stories about certain people collecting killer pines and junipers just to get pictures of them in the books and magazines, then they died! There are a few left but never became what they could have been. It is very sad really, we could have been a leading force in the bonsai world.


America will always be important to the rest of the world - including bonsai- for the simple reason that a very large part of the material wealth of the world is concentrated in this country.

America is gaining strength in the bonsai world, but it will be sometime before we are considered "Important" by the rest of the world. I hope it happens sooner than later. The rest of the material wealth I will agree with you that America and CHINA have a stranglehold on everything else, :)

Jason
 

JasonG

Chumono
Messages
786
Reaction score
18
Location
NW Oregon
Another subject my friend mentioned was that it is not unusual to see the aristocrats of various countries get involved in bonsai collections like Prime Ministers, Kings and noble types. Anything to this? Also, if you had to pick one plant species, regardless of climate, what would be your first choice from the USA?

Tied for first place would be Ponderosa Pine and Mt. Hemlock!
 

king kong

Banned
Messages
356
Reaction score
0
Hi Attila,


Hundereds of thousands of trees were collected throughout the Rockies in the 50's thru the 80's.....many of which died. I have heard plenty of stories about certain people collecting killer pines and junipers just to get pictures of them in the books and magazines, then they died! There are a few left but never became what they could have been. It is very sad really, we could have been a leading force in the bonsai world

Jason

It is a learning curve all right and I am not proud to say I have been a part of it. So many ancient trees hanging on by a vein of life or had no business being dug due to poor transplant qualities or struggled with poor horticulture skills have fallen to the bonsai gods. That is one reason why I am a believer in scratch grow. It will sure teach you to appreciate the 'mother nature' designed trees a hell of lot more.
 

greerhw

Omono
Messages
1,976
Reaction score
15
Hi Attila,

I am not sure I agree with the above, in a bonsai sense. America as a whole is very far behind Europe and Japan (Asia) in Bonsai. We have many generations to go to get even close to these other countries. We have to look at Europe and Japan to see what they are doing inorder to better our future of bonsai. Japan is leading the world in bonsai, look at many of the books and magazines, they are still producing very killer bonsai, bonsai that is not cookie cutter. They hold the techniques and secrets that not many know about in America.
Europe is not far off of Asia, the material coming out of the Alps, Italy and other parts are phenominal. We would be complete idiots to not be interested in what they are doing, either that or one is just not serious about bonsai. Europe has and amazing collection of worldclass artist's and trees, more so than America by far. Hopefully one day we are able to mentioned in the same breath as them.

In America we have a wealth of land to collect, but really only certain parts of the country have the right type of ground to compete with the twisty gnarly pines and junipers you see in Japan and Europe. We as American bonsai folks need to get these old collected trees to a showable state to get credability in the bonsai world.
Hundereds of thousands of trees were collected throughout the Rockies in the 50's thru the 80's.....many of which died. I have heard plenty of stories about certain people collecting killer pines and junipers just to get pictures of them in the books and magazines, then they died! There are a few left but never became what they could have been. It is very sad really, we could have been a leading force in the bonsai world.




America is gaining strength in the bonsai world, but it will be sometime before we are considered "Important" by the rest of the world. I hope it happens sooner than later. The rest of the material wealth I will agree with you that America and CHINA have a stranglehold on everything else, :)

Jason

To the Japanese in the koi world, we are nothing but customers, we won't able to compete with the koi they produce for a long time if ever, they have to much of a head start. I think the same thing is true with JBP's and Junipers. We have no 100 year yamadori Itowaga to compete with. We do however have RMJ's and California junipers. that they can't get their hands on. We will never catch up with them raising JBP's but we can at least create beautiful native junipers.I hope that makes some since.
 

Attila Soos

Omono
Messages
1,804
Reaction score
54
Location
Los Angeles (Altadena), CA
USDA Zone
9
I am not sure I agree with the above, in a bonsai sense.

Obviously, I had a lot of sarcasm in my tone, when I said that. So it is good that you don't agree.

But it is well known that Americans pay much less attention to the outside world, than the outside world pays attention to America.
When I lived in Europe, I remember that the news media, and the people as well, always was very interested in what is going on in the outside world.

But since I live here in the US, it is easy to notice that people in general are much less educated about the world outside their borders. And the media coverage also reflects that, the only thing you see in the major news, outside the US, are the conflicts zones where Americans are involved. Not much else, about the rest of the world.

In Europe, I grew up speaking at least 4 languages. Here you don't see that kind of versatility in the average American. You do see many languages spoken by different people, but not by one person. This is what I've meant about the average American being self-centered :). I don't say this as a criticism, rather acknowledging as basic human nature. The more power a nation has, the less attention is paid to others.

Bonsai people here are somewhat different, though. They are more open to learn from the rest of the world, they have no real choice but to do so.
 
Last edited:

Marc S

Yamadori
Messages
89
Reaction score
0
Location
Gent, Belgium
In Europe, bonsai started at the end of the seventies. Books, bonsai pots, tools etc... were not available back then. People learned by trial and error.
If I'm not mistaken, there was already an American bonsai scene back then. American bonsai is older than European bonsai IMO.
 

king kong

Banned
Messages
356
Reaction score
0
Thanks for that information Marc. I would like to have a time line of sorts for the big picture . From what I can gather at the moment and if anyone can help out that would be great.

California got it started post-War in the late 40's or early 50's, club; Golden State Bonsai Federation?

New York I need help here too...I have no dates or clubs

Florida started in late 60's, club; Bonsai Society of Miami
 

Marc S

Yamadori
Messages
89
Reaction score
0
Location
Gent, Belgium
It is a learning curve all right and I am not proud to say I have been a part of it. So many ancient trees hanging on by a vein of life or had no business being dug due to poor transplant qualities or struggled with poor horticulture skills have fallen to the bonsai gods. That is one reason why I am a believer in scratch grow. It will sure teach you to appreciate the 'mother nature' designed trees a hell of lot more.

I love this quote by Michael Hagedorn:
When a ‘styled’ tree has lived enough in a pot that it has taken over possession of itself again, it is no longer a fingerprint of an artist, but it is simply a tree again.
 

king kong

Banned
Messages
356
Reaction score
0
Wow, that got me thinking and reaching for a cold one! He was in Florida last year and I missed him. Michael is on fire with talent. Didn't know he wrote too.
 

king kong

Banned
Messages
356
Reaction score
0
Yes, a Brewski, brew, suds, a cold one sorry about that.
 
Top Bottom