Korean Hornbeam Question

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Omono
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I have seen “Korean Hornbeam” listed as Carpinus coreana as well as Carpinus turczaninowii. Is there any discernible difference between these two for bonsai purposes?
 

JudyB

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They seem to grow a different rates of speed, not sure if I remember this correctly, but I think the coreana is the more vigorous. The turczaninowii has better fall color and I believe the leaves are more crenelated too.
 

just.wing.it

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They are both indeed from Korea but as Judy said the difference, so I've read is noticeable in growth rate and fall color.
Though usually my leaves are so damaged by fall that I have yet to see it in 3 years.
Type Carpinus Care Sheet into Google, and see the thing from Bonsai Tool Chest....not a ton of info but something...I'd post it, but its a PDF and my crappy phone won't let me....
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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As Judy said,
The two species are different. Side by side you will see the differences.

You are in New Jersey. Try working with a Carpinus caroliniana, the native north American hornbeam. It is native to NJ. If you can find land that is okay for collecting, there's a good chance you can find some locally. Leaves reduce almost as tiny as Carpinus turczaninowii or C. coreana.
 

Tidal Bonsai

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As Judy said,
The two species are different. Side by side you will see the differences.

You are in New Jersey. Try working with a Carpinus caroliniana, the native north American hornbeam. It is native to NJ. If you can find land that is okay for collecting, there's a good chance you can find some locally. Leaves reduce almost as tiny as Carpinus turczaninowii or C. coreana.

Thank you all for your responses, this makes a lot of sense. I have a C. coreana, and it does seem to grow faster, but it has a less impressive fall color (the leaves just shriveled up and died this year).

I missed the collecting trip last year, but this year I will be tagging along with the Great Swamp Bonsai Society to collect some trees. They have various spots that they collect from (with permission). Last year they got some Hornbeam, fruit trees, pitch pine and Amur. I can’t wait for spring!
 

coh

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They seem to grow a different rates of speed, not sure if I remember this correctly, but I think the coreana is the more vigorous. The turczaninowii has better fall color and I believe the leaves are more crenelated too.
This (fall color) is the exact opposite of what I've been told. Some years back I bought K hornbeam seedlings from 2 source, Bill Valavanis and Matt Ouwinga. Matt claimed the ones he had were the coreana and I have no reason not to believe him. Those produce much nicer fall color for me - lots of oranges and reds. The ones from Bill consistently produce drab yellow fall color so I've always assumed they were the turczaninowii.
 

Vindeezy

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I have seen “Korean Hornbeam” listed as Carpinus coreana as well as Carpinus turczaninowii. Is there any discernible difference between these two for bonsai purposes?
Another difference is that the carpinus coreana has a smoother bark than c. Turczaninowii
 

cbroad

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Brent has coreana as being the slowest grower out of all those used for bonsai, but having the best fall color.

I had to go out and check mine, mine is tagged "Koreana" so I don't even know what I have...

So far no fall color but the leaves are already washed out from full sun, and last year I didn't get any color. Mine has not been vigorous in the 2 years I've had it...
 

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Brent has coreana as being the slowest grower out of all those used for bonsai, but having the best fall color.

I had to go out and check mine, mine is tagged "Koreana" so I don't even know what I have...

So far no fall color but the leaves are already washed out from full sun, and last year I didn't get any color. Mine has not been vigorous in the 2 years I've had it...

I got my coreana from Matt O. in the spring. I attached it to a rock and let it grow this season. It grew very well and put on about a 1/2 inch trunk in one season, despite the limited space. However there was no fall color this year. Is there a trick to getting better fall color?
 

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cbroad

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Haha yeah mine are doing the same thing, kind of washed out and looking chlorotic. To be honest I was expecting no leaves on it so I was surprised to still see some.

In landscape trees, cold nights and drier soil create the best fall color. I don't know about any tricks for bonsai, I definitely don't suggest not watering your trees o_O
 

Johnnyd

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I got my coreana from Matt O. in the spring. I attached it to a rock and let it grow this season. It grew very well and put on about a 1/2 inch trunk in one season, despite the limited space. However there was no fall color this year. Is there a trick to getting better fall color?
I wonder if foliar feeding would help? Seems to bring out more colors with my Japanese maples.
 

coh

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None of my hornbeams produced good color this year, but the coreana from Matt were still "better" (more reddish tones) than the others. We had a hot dry summer, maybe that was part of it.
 

rockm

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As Judy said,
The two species are different. Side by side you will see the differences.

You are in New Jersey. Try working with a Carpinus caroliniana, the native north American hornbeam. It is native to NJ. If you can find land that is okay for collecting, there's a good chance you can find some locally. Leaves reduce almost as tiny as Carpinus turczaninowii or C. coreana.

Having worked with both Korean species and the American variety, I have noticed that the Korean species are mostly vastly superior in vigor and overall bonsai performance than Caroliniana. Just the way it is. Leaves on turc and coreana reduce dramatically to TINY 1/4" or even smaller with due diligence. Ramification on both Korean species is dense and DENSER and comes pretty reliably with timed pruning.

None of that is true for the American species.

Don't get me wrong. Carpinus caroliniana is an extremely nice species to work with as bonsai. It just doesn't have the same qualities as the Korean varieties, just as they don't have the same qualities as the American species--which are muscular trunks (which are easily collectible) on top of very fine nebari--which is pretty common.
 

just.wing.it

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I have a Turcz type and its leaves didnt get too badly torched this summer, surprisingly...
The leaves are still green, but I'll post when they change.
 

Vance Wood

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As Judy said,
The two species are different. Side by side you will see the differences.

You are in New Jersey. Try working with a Carpinus caroliniana, the native north American hornbeam. It is native to NJ. If you can find land that is okay for collecting, there's a good chance you can find some locally. Leaves reduce almost as tiny as Carpinus turczaninowii or C. coreana.
Carpinis caroliniana is the native Hornbeam. It has drastically larger leaves where as the Korean Hornbeam has much smaller leaves. They should be transplanted at least once every three years or they will weaken. The roots are as hard as the branches and when they become tangled you have to cut with a saw.
 

rockm

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Thanks Vance and RockM, I've got a couple of the native caroliniana, and Ostrya virginiana. Not had either of the Korean species. Seen a few, the small leaves and twiggyness is nice.
Nice can also be a pain. The ramification on both Korean species is so dense it can require a lot of "editing" to prevent the canopy and branches from looking odd.
 
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