Kotobuki JBP

Maloghurst

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I posted this tree before I bought it a year ago and thought I would show it’s progress. I welcome criticism. I will say that I realize the wiring is sloppy, this being one of the first times I’ve done it. There is also almost a “bar branch” on the lowest branches but I don’t have much choice as I won’t be cutting off anything from this tree for awhile. The upper section has some bar branches as well but these were spokes that I cut back to two to minmize the knuckle. Otherwise I’m just letting the top grow.
And there is a scar (probably the graft)a couple inches from the bottom that would be nice to hide but this is the best front right now. I did try to root a lot of cuttings over this summer but they did not take. Once I repot in the spring I thinks the lowest branch might not seem so low either. At any rate it’s going to be a long process.
Thank you, mike
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Giga

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It is going to be a long road but a good one. I would have cut back all the way to the first little left branch on that long apex branch and used that for the new apex start.
 

Velodog2

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If you really need to keep the bar branches near the bottom, an effective trick is to make one a back branch as you seem to be doing, then bend that one up above the level of the other one. From the front it will appear to be at a different level since you can't see where it attaches to the trunk. It can easily be made to look natural, and remember that even on old trees old branches do not have to emerge straight out or down. The bark on this is already nice!

If you can rotate the tree left slightly it will allow your trunk chop to better become part of the left bend you are trying to initiate there.

I think Giga has the right idea with the further pruning. I'd love to have some trees like this to work with as ten year or so projects.
 

Maloghurst

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It is going to be a long road but a good one. I would have cut back all the way to the first little left branch on that long apex branch and used that for the new apex start.
I think your right for down the road a bit. I’m letting the top grow as a sacrifice right now for healing the chop and to create better taper. I would like the top to thicken more before cutting back. Then work on the apex. That’s my plan anyway maybe I’m wrong. That’s why I didn’t wire any branching at the top.
 

Potawatomi13

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If you can rotate the tree left slightly it will allow your trunk chop to better become part of the left bend you are trying to initiate there.

This will bring rt branch forward and hide trunk when developed and also move lft branch even further to back. Not so good. Cut at top is better hidden instead of emphasized;).
 

Maloghurst

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This will bring rt branch forward and hide trunk when developed and also move lft branch even further to back. Not so good. Cut at top is better hidden instead of emphasized;).
Yes. This is exactly what I saw though I couldn’t articulate why.
 

Velodog2

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This will bring rt branch forward and hide trunk when developed and also move lft branch even further to back. Not so good. Cut at top is better hidden instead of emphasized;).

Perhaps so. I can’t judge the effect of the rotated branches. Often with pines however trying to hide a cut is less effective and certainly takes more time than using it to provide taper and emphasize direction change. Regardless, this will be a nice reee someday I’m sure!
 

Maloghurst

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Perhaps so. I can’t judge the effect of the rotated branches. Often with pines however trying to hide a cut is less effective and certainly takes more time than using it to provide taper and emphasize direction change. Regardless, this will be a nice reee someday I’m sure!
I did see your point with utilizing the chop but if I turn it left then my first branch moves to far to the rear and if I turn it right then my back branch comes into view and does not look right.
 

Maloghurst

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Here is an update for this tree. I finally got it out of the nursery pot and into a flat. I reduced the total mass of the roots by 30% mostly from removing the bottom 2.5 inches which did not look good at all, exposed some nebari and loosened the roots all around the tree and made clean cuts. I did not want to disturb to much because it was in this pot for a very long time and has very big circling roots.
The nebari looks pretty good especially when I eventually remove some of those messy roots around the base. And the lowest branches are in better position now as well. In terms of height.
The two bottom branches are not actually “bar branches” but we will see if one or both of the bottom branches are removed eventually. That could be an option. If I want a literati style.
Probably 2 more seasons before I chop back to a new leader. At that time I will remove more of the nursery soil and reduce the roots again.
This tree is very slow grower.
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Wilson

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I have found that my kotobuki back buds like crazy. Whether it's pruning, decandling, or just pinching candles. How are you feeding this one? I feed pretty heavy with chemical and organics.
 

Maloghurst

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I have found that my kotobuki back buds like crazy. Whether it's pruning, decandling, or just pinching candles. How are you feeding this one? I feed pretty heavy with chemical and organics.
I’ve just been using a chemical all purpose for conifers.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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Once established in that Anderson flat, your 'Kotobuki' should grow relative quick, about the same speed as slow to medium normal JBP. It is a true yatsubusa type, should have multiple buds when given enough sun, water & fertilizer.

It may take 2 years to establish, and not grow ''fast'' until the 3rd year, so try to avoid repotting very often.

Myself, I would have kept the nebari buried, that is my personal taste. Roots exposed too young, before they are old enough to form a heavy bark, will often die when exposed. Lower roots will take over, repeated over exposing the nebari leads to a volcano like cone of roots propping the tree up. This is not the attractive 'exposed root style' this often becomes just awkward. But it is too late to change. If those roots were higher than the nebari on the other side, the buried side, this will be good as you can eventually remove them and have a level nebari all the way around. Roots need to be buried to develop caliper. Develop the nebari while buried, then as the tree approaches ''finished'', you can begin to expose the roots.

If your long term plan involved increasing the diameter of the trunk significantly, by more than 1 inch, or more than 3 cm, you don't have to worry about reverse taper, and bulges caused by bar branches or multiple branches. You will have plenty of time to ''cure'' bulges and lumps by controlling growth later, as you get closer to finished size & design. I like to keep at least 2 branches, up to 3 branches at every node, in order to have choices later when the serious styling and design setting occur. This is a technique for young pines. Like yours. Once this pine is close to being put in a bonsai pot, but before the move out of the Anderson flat, then you work on controlling grow, and smooth out lumps and bumps by reducing all nodes to the trunk line and one branch. Or for branches, the main line of the branch plus one. But this doesn't happen until there is enough ramification there to actually set the style. Right now you are just roughing in a trunk line. It is quite likely none of the current branches will be part of your finished tree. The finished branches will probably all be from buds that pop sometime within the next 5 or so years.

So don't worry too much about reverse taper, you need to keep many branches (2 or 3 per node) to give yourself styling options in the future.
 

johnwong

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How Long it take for young kotobuki to grow in a training pot? Into medium size bonsai
 

Maloghurst

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If those roots were higher than the nebari on the other side, the buried side, this will be good as you can eventually remove them and have a level nebari all the way around
This. The exposed roots were circling roots in the pot. Not part of the nebari. They will be removed.
Thank you for instruction also.
How Long it take for young kotobuki to grow in a training pot? Into medium size bonsai
My kotobuki was grown in nursery containers for more then 10 years. But it was pot bound also so better growing would be bigger. But as Leo said maybe 1/2 the speed of normal or less. Pretty slow anyway.
 

johnwong

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U got any progression picture? I’m gonna try using airpot if u heard of it
This. The exposed roots were circling roots in the pot. Not part of the nebari. They will be removed.
Thank you for instruction also.

My kotobuki was grown in nursery containers for more then 10 years. But it was pot bound also so better growing would be bigger. But as Leo said maybe 1/2 the speed of normal or less. Pretty slow anyway.
 

Maloghurst

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I also while looking at the candles today found several candles with little black larva inside and candle was dead. I cut them off and couldn’t find anymore. Is this common?
 

Maloghurst

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U got any progression picture? I’m gonna try using airpot if u heard of it
Most recent pic is a couple month as ago. Just letting it recover till next next year. I’m not going to decandle either.
 
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