Lance's JBP....

[LanceMac10]

june 1 '18

 

[Adair M]

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june 1 '18

So, are you going to cut the candles this year? It’s the right time!

 

[LanceMac10]

@Adair M Yes, not quite yet though. Probably next weekend. I'll have the week of July 4th off.....I'll need everyday of that, I'm sure! You've been a great source of information on JBP here, so thanks for that! I've used the knowledge you and @Brian Van Fleet graciously leave here and there to build up a little experience, so thanks to you both. Not much compared to the work you guy's do, but that's ok, I started with ZERO experience. Goals were to build abundant vigor, husband buck-budding to cut back to and rough wiring to "stabilize" the design. Not goals directly related to "progress", but I think essential to the "process". Not an ideal climate and the limitations of my expertise nudged me towards a more conservative approach. There is a plan, don't think I'm not looking ahead. Still trying to bring the branching in closer so refinement techniques are still a bit off in the future. But more of those techniques will be slowly implemented. A gradual, more encompassing refinement approach by 2020 or 2021?


This morning......

 

[coh]

Tree looks really healthy! I decandled my JBP about a week ago but mine is more in the refinement stage and has a much lower needle mass, so I have to do it a little earlier to get the kind of second flush I want.

 

[Adair M]

New Hampshire? That means winter comes sooner for you. Which means that after you decandle, the new shoots have a shorter time to grow. So, all that means you should decandle EARLIER in the year! I decandle on July 4. You should decandle early to mid June!

Ok, to build foliage closer to the trunk, there’s a couple ways to do it: one is to let it grow and get strong, and then cut back hard! I believe that what you are attempting.

The other way is to wire the tree out, pull unnecessary needles and decandle. This is the approach I generally take.

Your approach works best on really rough stock. If I remember, your tree already had a bit of style already. But that’s water under the dam!

When you cut back you have to leave some green on the branch. It will not pop new buds on a bare branch. (Like a Trident maple will).

Sunlight must be able to hit the woody branches. Lush terminal foliage will block the sun. The stems and twigs will be shaded. There’s no reason for the tree to pop buds where there’s no sun.

That’s why my wiring out method works. When wired, the needles get forced to point out, not up. They no longer shade out the branch structure. Back buds can form at the old internode joints.

Decandling aids in this process, too. Repeated decandling shortens internodes. If you don’t decandle, you get long internodes. So, a tree that has been decandled repeatedly in the past has a lot of short internodes, and internode “joints”. It’s from those joints where backbudding usually occurs. Yes, there may be some old dormant buds that were between a pair of needles, but these are very weak, and rarely pop on old wood. Whereas budding from internode joints is quite common.

So, you state that you are trying to bring foliage in closer to the trunk. That, my friend, IS refinement! Refinement techniques will produce the result you are looking for!

Good luck, and if you are decandling this year, do it sooner rather than later!

 

[DirkvanDreven]

Ok, to build foliage closer to the trunk, there’s a couple ways to do it: one is to let it grow and get strong, and then cut back hard! I believe that what you are attempting.

So cutting back hard is not timed the same as decandling? Is it wise to cut back late summer? Buds wil not extent anymore that year, but wil start to grow next spring? That wil be needle buds, so no decandling next summer. How do we prevent new growth from being to vigorous?
@Adair M , these questions come up, having a pair of scissors in my hand to cut back my small black pine!

 

[DirkvanDreven]

This small black pine.

(excuse me for hijacking your thread)

 

[Adair M]

So cutting back hard is not timed the same as decandling? Is it wise to cut back late summer? Buds wil not extent anymore that year, but wil start to grow next spring? That wil be needle buds, so no decandling next summer. How do we prevent new growth from being to vigorous?
@Adair M , these questions come up, having a pair of scissors in my hand to cut back my small black pine!

Usually, the cutting back method cuts back into old wood, that still has healthy needles to get it to pop needle buds. You might get some to actually pop and grow if done over the summer, usually it sets the buds in the fall, and they grow the following spring. But, you fave to wait an additional year before you can decandle them.

I have not done that very often. Only on rough stock that has fairly large, long branches from being grown in the ground. And then, only once. After that, I use decandling as it’s more controllable.

By the way, my avatar tree was cut back hard this past March. So, I’m not going to decandle this year. In the fall, I will rewrite it. The cutback it received is a maintenance cutback, not a developmental cutback. It was highly refined with a lot of twigs and short internodes. But even with annual decandling, the branches had gotten too long. So, it was time to shorten all the branches, cutting back to interior twigs and branches. Since prior to the cutback, most if the remaining shoots had been interior shoots, they were not as strong as the ones that were removed. By not decandling them this year, they will have a chance to get strong, and I can resume my usual practice of decandling next year. The spring shoots they put out this year were only about 1/2 to 3/4 inch, many less than that! I still have lots of shoots so the tree is very healthy.

 

[DirkvanDreven]

Usually, the cutting back method cuts back into old wood, that still has healthy needles to get it to pop needle buds. You might get some to actually pop and grow if done over the summer, usually it sets the buds in the fall, and they grow the following spring. But, you fave to wait an additional year before you can decandle them.

I have not done that very often. Only on rough stock that has fairly large, long branches from being grown in the ground. And then, only once. After that, I use decandling as it’s more controllable.

By the way, my avatar tree was cut back hard this past March. So, I’m not going to decandle this year. In the fall, I will rewrite it. The cutback it received is a maintenance cutback, not a developmental cutback. It was highly refined with a lot of twigs and short internodes. But even with annual decandling, the branches had gotten too long. So, it was time to shorten all the branches, cutting back to interior twigs and branches. Since prior to the cutback, most if the remaining shoots had been interior shoots, they were not as strong as the ones that were removed. By not decandling them this year, they will have a chance to get strong, and I can resume my usual practice of decandling next year. The spring shoots they put out this year were only about 1/2 to 3/4 inch, many less than that! I still have lots of shoots so the tree is very healthy.

Thanks again Adair! I'll wait till end of summer to cut back into old needles!

 

[LanceMac10]

Oh well! Actually looking at the image "proper", I see I should have probably thinned some spots out a little more thoroughly...….Happy Friday!!!!






Let the derision commence!!!!!!!!

 

[Adair M]

Oh well! Actually looking at the image "proper", I see I should have probably thinned some spots out a little more thoroughly...….Happy Friday!!!!

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Let the derision commence!!!!!!!!

Well, you already noticed it: the bottom half of the tree is still too dense. Thin it out some more. You could start by pulling (or cutting off) the needles that are growing and/or hanging down. You can remove those from the upper part of the tree as well!

Then thin the crowded portions. If a branch gets really crowded, the tree stops making good candles. You get lots of little weak buds. Yeah, it makes for a lot of needles, but it’s weak. And subject to diseases like needlecast. It’s actually preferable to get fewer, but stronger, shoots. The stronger shoots will have fatter, shorter, stiffer needles that grow up than the weak growth which will have long, thin, soft needles which tend to hang.

 

[coh]

Yeah, clean off those downward growing needles. It's amazing how much of a difference that makes! I got most of them off my tree (JBP) but could still probably reduce the needle density a bit.

No derision from me

 

[AlainK]

To me, the trunk on the right looks good. It could be a "literati" on its own provided that one of the two branches that make a cross at the top is pruned.

But maybe the trunk on the left could still be wired to get some movement at the top....

 

[LanceMac10]

I go thru and remove "most" of the down-pointing needles and a bit more of the up-pointing ones later than most, I'm sure. They still provide some energy. Maybe shades out new buds a bit, but if it's going to bud, I don't feel it's an issue. Another week off first week of August, so that will have to be it. It's ok to laugh, but my intention is to have it look good on a certain weekend in September.

Some buds gaining strength in the crowns I'll cut back to and probably have to remove some overgrown branches in those areas. Wire some kind of apex on both and re-wire/wire branches.


Next year dial-in planting angles/lean and trunk orientation. Continue to pray it lives......

Thanks for the comments, folks!

 

[LanceMac10]

Varmint Cong getting bold.....few tree's got some un-sanctioned root-prune and this one got some decorations...…..



……………...hate squirrels! Wish ol' Bear was still around.....was just like this guy!








Repot this spring.....

 

[coh]

Is that a walnut? When I was cleaning up my trees for winter storage, I found single kernels of corn "planted" in a few of them. Not sure whether it was done by squirrels, chipmunks, or birds. Probably chipmunks or birds since the amount of soil disturbance was minimal. Never know what you'll find!

 

[LanceMac10]

Yes, that's from a Black Walnut. Find some corn as well, usually after it sprouts. At least I think it was corn!

Birds have gotten much bolder/destructive, lately. They like to toss all the expensive soil bits aside to find what they are looking for....

My favorite lil' mudman was absconded by squirrels right under my nose!!


Pine a bit yellow. Extensive fall rains and a little rootbound..and I'd say the akadama is about the consistency of cookie-dough!

 

[coh]

My neighbor started feeding the birds year round (we only do it in the winter), so the last few years I've had bunches of sunflowers sprouting in some of my trees. Whatever critter is stashing them likes to stash a bunch at a time, since it's never one that comes up but a half dozen or more. They grow fast!

 

[LanceMac10]

Sorry for crappy trac-fone shot. Tough to find a good deal on those little handy-cams....so no camera right now. But you get the idea.....

….now, please don't die!!!!!

 

[LanceMac10]

I wired it into the pot. No "dirt", though.

Couple layers of circling roots on the bottom. Perhaps the reason for "yellow" summer needles? I think it might have been a little too damp down there.
I'll have to do a bit of shuffle for a week or two, or just not bother and put it back under cover. But it won't be long I figure.....


Good myc throughout the rootball.....looked like insulation. Don't think it's bug related...but we will see...together!