Landscape Japanese Maple

[GayGardenGuy]

Hey y’all. I have a bit of a dilemma here as to what I want to do with a tree. I’ve had a weeping maple growing in my front yard for many years and recently it gained about 13 feet in diameter and it kinda looked more like a bush than a tree. In a series of events including my house burning down and me worrying about the trees health. I cut it back quite hard last spring preparing to move it and it’s recovered quite well. Buds have popped up all over the trunk and last easons growth was quite strong. I really want to save the tree and possibly turn it into a bonsai but that might be quite difficult. The trunk is near 8 inches in diameter and I can’t imagine the root system is in any shape to be proud of. I’m also 100% sure it’s a grafted tree even though I see no graft point as my other Japanese maple planted at the same time is grafted. Possibly under the soil level. I’ve read that now is the best time to transplant a tree of that size. I’ll get some pics tomorrow and I’d love to hear what you think I should do.

 

[Deleted member 21616]

weeping maple

Is it a Ryusen? Do you have pictures?

personally, if I had a Japanese maple that size, there would be no doubt about what I would do: cuttings and air layers. Start yourself some great material on the right track for quality bonsai down the road.

 

[GayGardenGuy]

Unsurprisingly the multiple air layers I’ve tried to do have failed ? will try again this year though with better supplies. Unsure of the exact variety but it’s a lace leaf weeping variety of some sort, not sure how many there are maybe just the one. If I did decid to dig it up I’d have to plant it into a very large pot which might be a problem. I think I might get to the last phase of trimming it and get started tying to figure out home to move it if possible if not take a million cuttings and hope they work and try a few more air layers. Got a second smaller tree that would make an amazing air layer for a beginner tree. Will get pics in very soon trying to get them today (Sunday) and some measurements. Honestly I’d be happy to just have it be a tree in a pot and have it grow naturally because I think it’s beyond bonsai unless I have a grand idea and 100 years to make it happen ? The pot is a big problem for me because the biggest and second biggest are quite different in size. The second being about the size of a barrel cut in half and the second being about 100-125 gal feeding trough which is fine with me but once I put it somewhere it’s ginna stay until I get a forklift lol. Anyway enough of my insomnia rants at 2 am

 

[GayGardenGuy]

Here’s a pic of a leaf I preserved in a copy of Michael Dirr’s “Manual of Woody Landscape Plants”. I try to preserve a leaf of every species on my properties. It’s a little broken lol should replace it

 

[Shibui]

Weeping Japanese maples are almost always grafted onto a tall seedling rootstock. Most of the weeping vars have very poor roots and thus fail to do well as cuttings or layers. Even seedlings from these have very poor survival past 12 months, probably because of the poor root strength.

recently it gained about 13 feet in diameter

Because they are grafted, occasionally the rootstock sprouts and grows much more strongly than the graft and can take over. If leaves are different it is likely rootstock has started growing through the grafted variety.

I’m also 100% sure it’s a grafted tree even though I see no graft point as my other Japanese maple planted at the same time is grafted. Possibly under the soil level.

Weeping varieties are very, very rarely grafted low because the weeping branches do not grow up. A low graft would just trail across the ground unless the owner tied it upright. Normally grafted at around 2' or 5-6' tall so the branches will weep down to ground level. The tall, straight trunk will still be there under the weeping branches and a tall straight trunk with weeping branches does not make the best bonsai, even if it is 8" thick.
Maybe a potted plant, better as a landscape plant, probably not worth wasting time for bonsai.

 

[Deleted member 21616]

having seen the leaves, i retract my previous comment I would not propagate this variety.

Most of the weeping vars have very poor roots and thus fail to do well as cuttings or layers

i'm curious is this is from experience or something you've heard? i've heard this elsewhere too! But some of these cultivars are barely 30-40 years old, and I have seen 30-40 year old landscape and bonsai specimens, standing on their own roots. They might just be oddballs though

 

[sorce]

events including my house burning down

Glad you were in the Garden!

Sorce

 

[cbroad]

a leaf I preserved in a copy of Michael Dirr’s “Manual of Woody Landscape Plants”

Great Idea! I'm sure Dirr would be proud!

A true plant geek's Bible!

 

[GayGardenGuy]

Weeping Japanese maples are almost always grafted onto a tall seedling rootstock. Most of the weeping vars have very poor roots and thus fail to do well as cuttings or layers. Even seedlings from these have very poor survival past 12 months, probably because of the poor root strength.

Because they are grafted, occasionally the rootstock sprouts and grows much more strongly than the graft and can take over. If leaves are different it is likely rootstock has started growing through the grafted variety.


Weeping varieties are very, very rarely grafted low because the weeping branches do not grow up. A low graft would just trail across the ground unless the owner tied it upright. Normally grafted at around 2' or 5-6' tall so the branches will weep down to ground level. The tall, straight trunk will still be there under the weeping branches and a tall straight trunk with weeping branches does not make the best bonsai, even if it is 8" thick.
Maybe a potted plant, better as a landscape plant, probably not worth wasting time for bonsai.

The other tree I have is a low graft just above ground level and in the pics I’m about to post the tree spilts into a Y low down so I don’t suspect a high graft. The tree had uniform leaves but I understand what you mean about the rootstock taking off. When I say this tree is old I mean probably more than 15-20 years and I’ve seen it go through stages of shedding where new growth covers the old and the old dies back. This leads me to believe that the tree would grow taller no matter what. It was about six feet tall before I cut it back and quite wide but it definitely gained height in the growing season

 

[GayGardenGuy]

Here’s some pics that are pretty terrible because I was in a rush. You can see the buds on the thicker part of the trunk and some small branches. This leads me to believe if I cut it back that hard it would have a pretty good chance of surviving the hard pruning. The root base is unknown as it seemlessly goes straight into the soil but when I get the chance I will take back the soil and take a look. If the tree is grafted it either can’t be seen for some reason, or the graft union is under the soil level. I may have exaggerated the 8 inch trunk a bit (I was going off memory?) and now I’ve measured it to be a bit over 6 inches. Not sure how much is salvageable maybe just cut it back to the closet buds to the trunk and start the process of ramification (which I’m sure will be longer than my lifetime). The roots might be beyond use for bonsai but maybe a exposed root style could be fun. Just an FYI I’m not trying to go for show trees I’m just trying to have fun growing trees in pots. If someone said here’s a beautiful 5 foot stick in a pot with some leaves on top I’d be psyched ?

 

[rodeolthr]

Weeping acer palmatum grown from seed do just fine on their own roots, at least for me. They are however much slower growing than their upright counterparts.

I personally move trees whenever the ground is not frozen, though others may have differing opinions, my experience comes from harvesting field grown trees for the nursery trade. I have also moved several of this variety of maple, as they are ubiquitous in Seattle, and people routinely want them removed from their property after they become far larger than they expected when they planted them next to their sidewalk/house/driveway. They seem to move just fine, and don't seem to need as much root as one would think, at least if moved early in the season.

 

[GayGardenGuy]

They seem to move just fine, and don't seem to need as much root as one would think, at least if moved early in the season.

When would you suggest I move it as soon as the ground is workable then? I have a limited time to move it as it will need to be torn out during construction.

 

[rodeolthr]

Yes, as soon as you are able to dig and there aren't frozen clumps of soil.