larch

[defra]

Hi there bnuts

this larch i bought this summer at ginko bonsai nursery in belgium

needles have fallen and the branch structure is a mess i realy dont know where to start to clean it up
i might try some thread grafts but never done that before tough

i like to hear what you guys woud do with it!

 

[just.wing.it]

Hi there bnuts

this larch i bought this summer at ginko bonsai nursery in belgium

needles have fallen and the branch structure is a mess i realy dont know where to start to clean it up
i might try some thread grafts but never done that before tough

i like to hear what you guys woud do with it!

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Cool larch!
I want to do a larch forest some day!
For a start, as long as it's a proper time of year to prune a little, I would cut off every branch that is growing straight up or down, and anything that looks dead....
Then step back and take a look at it again...

 

[sorce]

I might just cut that Wang off the top and see what it does.

Oh and wire it sure.

Nice!

Sorce

 

[defra]

thnx Just.wing.it all branches are alive deadones where cut out when it was still green.

@sorce what do you mean with wang?

 

[petegreg]

Depends on what style you're gonna build...
The straight trunk asks for formal upright. Just the heavy top should be removed. You can clean branches from spokes and wire the rest, reduce branch length for branch taper... I think larches back bud well, so no need for thread grafting so soon, give it an opportunity...
Sure, if it's chopped, you can go for many other styles.

 

[sorce]

what do you mean with

Schermafbeelding?

Lol! Screenshot?

The part that juts out of the top and goes up again.

It seems to have given you a little taper already.

Sorce

 

[defra]

Schermafbeelding?

Lol! Screenshot?

The part that juts out of the top and goes up again.

It seems to have given you a little taper already.

Sorce

yes schermafbeelding means screenshot lol its dutch

@petegreg i heard that they dont realy backbud on old wood so thats why i tought of grafting but ill wait and see what happens if i cut off that top and clean it up some i also tought formal upright but wanna look for slanting too

ill have to look if that little stump that will become the top when I cut the top out is alive tough
maybe ill jin the top first before removing it

 

[petegreg]

@petegreg i heard that they dont realy backbud on old wood so thats why i tought of grafting but ill wait and see what happens if i cut off that top and clean it up...

Right, I've heard same, but that bark on your tree is still young.

 

[mattspinniken]

It seems like you have plenty of branch options no need to worry about grafting, that seems to take years anyway on Larch. If you cut the "wang" reduce the heavy branches up top and cut back other branches then wire I think you will have a new perspective on this tree. If you do please post pics

 

[jeremy_norbury]

Depends on what style you're gonna build...
The straight trunk asks for formal upright. Just the heavy top should be removed. You can clean branches from spokes and wire the rest, reduce branch length for branch taper... I think larches back bud well, so no need for thread grafting so soon, give it an opportunity...
Sure, if it's chopped, you can go for many other styles.

Let's just take this one at a time because you've made a bunch of false statements which leads me to believe you don't actually even own a larch and never have. If any of these are actually true, by all means give me a source.

- Formal upright requires a perfectly straight trunk with exactly perfectly spaced branches - so this can never be one. https://peterteabonsai.wordpress.com/tag/formal-upright/
- European x Japanese Larch do NOT back bud - I've been growing them for 35 years and it's never happened to any of mine. Larch specialists have confirmed this to me.
- I've never ever heard of them responding to grafting of any kind.
- Can you clarify this: "if it's chopped , you can go for many other styles." - this tree has almost no trunk movement so what other styles are possible?

My advice would be to wire parts of it and see how it looks.

If you remove the top , the overall height reduces and then the lowest branch is too high. That cannot be corrected without growing a lower branch out and wiring it down.

 

[defra]

Let's just take this one at a time because you've made a bunch of false statements which leads me to believe you don't actually even own a larch and never have. If any of these are actually true, by all means give me a source.

- Formal upright requires a perfectly straight trunk with exactly perfectly spaced branches - so this can never be one. https://peterteabonsai.wordpress.com/tag/formal-upright/
- European x Japanese Larch do NOT back bud - I've been growing them for 35 years and it's never happened to any of mine. Larch specialists have confirmed this to me.
- I've never ever heard of them responding to grafting of any kind.
- Can you clarify this: "if it's chopped , you can go for many other styles." - this tree has almost no trunk movement so what other styles are possible?

My advice would be to wire parts of it and see how it looks.

If you remove the top , the overall height reduces and then the lowest branch is too high. That cannot be corrected without growing a lower branch out and wiring it down.

i have seen someone on the dutch bonsaiempire forum do thread grafting on aan larch with succes so that is posible

thnx for your reply

 

[Tentakelaertje]

Hey Dennis, nice to see an update on this larch. If I were you I'd spin it around until you have a rough idea of what to do with it, draw a bunch of sketches and take all of it to someone who already knows the species and has nice trees. (Like mr. @jeremy_norbury )
I asked Ron de Roo whether he's having a bonsai working day in the near future. I can pm you when he answers, if you like.

 

[mattspinniken]

- I've never ever heard of them responding to grafting of any kind.

Yes you can graft in a few different ways, at least on American Larch. I am assuming you could on others. Thread grafting is most popular, Lenz talks about it in his book. Crust has posted successful thread grafts on this site. I have one that appears successful but I am giving it another growing season to make sure.

This tree doesn't need grafting though...imo

 

[defra]

Hey Dennis, nice to see an update on this larch. If I were you I'd spin it around until you have a rough idea of what to do with it, draw a bunch of sketches and take all of it to someone who already knows the species and has nice trees. (Like mr. @jeremy_norbury )
I asked Ron de Roo whether he's having a bonsai working day in the near future. I can pm you when he answers, if you like.

thnx maarten !
I Will put it on My turntable when I got the time and try to sketch some and see what I could Come up with

sure pm me sounds great not sure if I have allot of time since our 3rd Child is being born real soon so ill be changeing diapers mosth of My spare time lol

 

[petegreg]

Let's just take this one at a time because you've made a bunch of false statements which leads me to believe you don't actually even own a larch and never have. If any of these are actually true, by all means give me a source.

- Formal upright requires a perfectly straight trunk with exactly perfectly spaced branches - so this can never be one. https://peterteabonsai.wordpress.com/tag/formal-upright/
- European x Japanese Larch do NOT back bud - I've been growing them for 35 years and it's never happened to any of mine. Larch specialists have confirmed this to me.
- I've never ever heard of them responding to grafting of any kind.
- Can you clarify this: "if it's chopped , you can go for many other styles." - this tree has almost no trunk movement so what other styles are possible?

My advice would be to wire parts of it and see how it looks.

If you remove the top , the overall height reduces and then the lowest branch is too high. That cannot be corrected without growing a lower branch out and wiring it down.

Not straight enough for formal upright? Hmmm...

I have only two larches and got some back buds at least from whorl places.

...after chopping, can you see a new trunk line?

...if he removes the top, new one will not grow? Received more than one meter of growth in the the ground this year.
Oh, man...

 

[Bolero]

When properly Pruned and Wired...

 

[GGB]

My American (L. laricina?) looks pretty similar. I just take it a little at a time. Everytime it's naked I remove one or two branches that aren't making the cut. Wire a few and cut a few back. You have good material with, a lot of options. I think this tree is pretty ideal, probably nicer than mine. PERSONALLY (for whatever that statement is worth), I wouldn't cut it back very far. But the top certainly needs a thinning

 

[GGB]

Also, I second (or third?) that this tree needs the opposite of grafting.

 

[petegreg]

@jeremy_norbury , here's the thread you had to admit for the first time you were not right. http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/and-another-days-larch-work.18062/
OK, maybe not back buds, but sleeping or lateral buds can wake up, esp. from the places where branch was removed. Just spend your time and google it. I had a hard time to remove unwanted buds or young shots comming from crotches or internodes in past.
Just have a look how many branches were there in the yellow circle... Let OP to prove it.

 

[defra]

thnx everyone for providing me with all of this information and opinions im more confident now i can make something out of this !

ill go work on it soon and Will keep one of the two lowest branches on as a back-up plan to chop it down to if nothing im going to try works

ill post an update as soon as i worked on the tree !