Larches

sdavis

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Western larch, Larix occidentalis - because they live locally are your best choice. They are only occasionally used for bonsai, see the Oregon artist's blogs, or contact them for any quirks of western larch. Either Mike Hagedorn, or Jonas Dupuich, or Ryan Neil, Matt Reel, Dan Robinson, one of them has experience with western larch. I don't recall any negatives. Should be winter hardy without temperature protection. Maybe shelter from wind, etc but temperature should not be an issue.

Larix lyallii - sub-alpine larch - high elevations of western North America - high elevation up to the tree line, northward well into the arctic tundra tundra. Adapted to very short growing season, and very cold temperatures. Very likely totally intolerant of warm summers. Heat would limit its use at lower latitudes or elevations. Similar heat tolerance issues with Siberian species Larix gmelinii and Larix sibirica. Though there might be some L. gmelinii being used as bonsai, but I believe only where summers are mild, and winters cold.

European Larch - Larix decidua - is known for the trunk becoming much larger in diameter relative to height than Japanese or native eastern American larch - Larix laricina. Will grow in slightly dryer, less wet locations than Larix laricina (tamarack) but European larch would still want consistent moisture. Will tolerate a little more heat than Larix decidua. I would not attempt to grow warmer than zone 7a.

Larix laricina - Eastern American Larch - Tamarack - Native to North America east of Rocky mountains, range in extreme northern Canada is extends west of Rockies. Native into zone 3. Extremely cold tolerant. Native range does not extends only into zone 6 in the south of its range. Needs a consistent and long cold winter dormancy, which likely limits its southern range. Not a good larch for Florida. Native to bogs in its southern range, can live in very wet pure peat soils, or can live in very inorganic, mineral soils in the more northern extent of its range. It wants consistent moisture available all year round. Acid to neutral soils are okay. Despite its origin in bogs, it does not seem sensitive at all to soil pH. So don't worry about it. Any mix suitable to conifers would work if not allowed to get dry.

Larix kaempferi - from mountains of central Japan, cold and heat tolerance similar to European larch, tends to be slender and graceful at bonsai size trees. So good for zones 6, 5 and 4 growers in North America. Maybe into zone 7a.

All larches work best in vertical styles, cascades are near impossible to keep healthy. Semi-cascades have been done with European larch, but it is hard to get a larch to grow in directions below horizontal. They want to grow either up or out.

Repotting MUST happen before green is visible sticking out of buds in spring. - The emphasis is mine, due to my problems with repotting, if you have been successful repotting after buds have begun to open that is fine, most people have trouble if repotted after spring growth as expanded beyond the bud stage.

That is most of what I know.

Having actually grown most of the above species in my yard in central Oregon I can say that, for me, the Larix larcinia is by far the most cold hardy and tolerates 100 degrees just fine. I like the bark of L. lyalli the best but that species is nearly impossible to find. Depending on the winter and spring conditions I find L. kaempferi, L. decidua, and L. occidentalis (which is native here) less dependable.
 

August44

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This is one of my Western Larches, Larix occidentalis that I collected last year in the Mts right outside of town. It is 18" tall from the soil up. It has a long way to go, but I like it.
 

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cmeg1

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I was so tempted from this thread I bought a small amount of seeds

After consideration I could not resost the Tamerack….nice and small leaves.

I am zone 6b-7a

Although practically all growth can be indoors in my hydro tent.The room is air conditioned and I can easily keep tents under 80f and also gets about 68f at night and can run lower humidity too.And of course take outside at seasons end to enjoy colors and have a cold dormant.

What do you all think?
 

W3rk

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I was so tempted from this thread I bought a small amount of seeds

After consideration I could not resost the Tamerack….nice and small leaves.

I am zone 6b-7a

Although practically all growth can be indoors in my hydro tent.The room is air conditioned and I can easily keep tents under 80f and also gets about 68f at night and can run lower humidity too.And of course take outside at seasons end to enjoy colors and have a cold dormant.

What do you all think?
On a slightly related note, I'm a bit south of you (Metro DC/zone 7) and I have 2 Larches (Larix Kaempferi). They do really well in the spring, but when we get into the heart of summer they struggle terribly. Maybe your summers would be better - you could try a mix with sample groups inside and out to compare.
 

cmeg1

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On a slightly related note, I'm a bit south of you (Metro DC/zone 7) and I have 2 Larches (Larix Kaempferi). They do really well in the spring, but when we get into the heart of summer they struggle terribly. Maybe your summers would be better - you could try a mix with sample groups inside and out to compare.
Thanks for this…….I will buy some Japanese ones too!
I went all out for the Tamerack…….
this is very helpful…..I’ll keep everyone updated…….or whoever has a grow tent indoors😆

i’m thinking there’s more to this ….not just the daytime temperature…..some time I’m thinking the Tamarack probably enjoys cooler nights also and dryer air …..which I can provide and I do have the tents on year around anyway so I’m ready just to grow one it’ll grow super fast in co2 fertilization and be a fun experiment ,but will definitely need outdoors late summer/autumn to harden up and get that deep cold dormancy for a few months either out my cold frame or in my
Cold storage refridgerator

I also chose this species because the seeds just germinate soon as they touch water for a week or so …..I just really didn’t feel like stratifying any seed at the time😆

also as much as the larch is capable of backbudding the tree should be quite interesting when I apply all the auxin breaking bio stimulant things I have discovered the past couple years onto it ……it’ll probably literally be a chunk of wood full of buds in a pot!!!
 
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KiwiPlantGuy

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Hi,
I thought I would add to this thread as I grow both Japanese and European Larch here in NZ. I think my zone is 9b and most of NZ is coastal. My summers are not like you guys (non-continental) as we have a sea breeze most of the time, and temperatures range between overnight lows of 15-20C to max daily highs 27-30C. Is that about 90F max day, and nights low 70’s? That overnight low is probably key to this I think.
Both species grow really well here, so I am a little confused with the information earlier in the thread about Zone 7 and colder?
Interested in what you guys think etc.
Charles
 

Bnana

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I'm in zone 8 and both European and Japanese larch (and their hybrid) are very common here. But they do suffer during hot dry summers.
For bonsai that doesn't seem to be a big issue. If the temperature is above 35 Celsius you can place it in the shade and make sure the pot doesn't dry out. That's harder to do with a forest.
 

andrewiles

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I recall root zone temps during the summer are important for larches as well. In small pots they can heat up much, much more than their native environments would allow. Keeping the pots cool is probably helpful.
 

cmeg1

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Hi,
I thought I would add to this thread as I grow both Japanese and European Larch here in NZ. I think my zone is 9b and most of NZ is coastal. My summers are not like you guys (non-continental) as we have a sea breeze most of the time, and temperatures range between overnight lows of 15-20C to max daily highs 27-30C. Is that about 90F max day, and nights low 70’s? That overnight low is probably key to this I think.
Both species grow really well here, so I am a little confused with the information earlier in the thread about Zone 7 and colder?
Interested in what you guys think etc.
Charles
I was enthused when I did see a zone 7 recommendation on line as most say only to zone 5.
I am an i door hydroponic enthusiest,so I have the means to and have also do e successfully in the past…some i door extended season growing.

The key for good survival is to bring outdoors from late Summer theough Autmn and the frosts leading into Winter…..they definately develop a natural resistance and hardiness before a chill in my deep ground coldframe or the fridge cooler in my home.

So happy for this….I got special select improved genetics….seed from some orchard apparently of Larix Larcina. I like the tighter growth of this species…….I can even run humidity anywhere between 40-60 % and day temps as low as 75F if I like…..winter indoor nights are 65f for my tents and Summers indoor nights are about 70f in my tents……..co2 fertilization also……we’ll see how they like it and also light intensity too……I am guessing mild and regular vegging light for 18 hrs a day……on the low intensity end if need be!

Excited because they apparently sprout with no pre treatment.

This is a test too……I just envisioned the gnarliest little shohin Larch……I can sell these to the public if they are working properly and in demand……deciduous stock can potentially grow VERY fast in this environment…..notibly sun lovers……and extreme budding species and varieties……….I prefer hardier ,resilient species that need no spraying in my care for any molds or fungus.
 
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GreatLakesBrad

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Thanks for this…….I will buy some Japanese ones too!
I went all out for the Tamerack…….
this is very helpful…..I’ll keep everyone updated…….or whoever has a grow tent indoors😆

i’m thinking there’s more to this ….not just the daytime temperature…..some time I’m thinking the Tamarack probably enjoys cooler nights also and dryer air …..which I can provide and I do have the tents on year around anyway so I’m ready just to grow one it’ll grow super fast in co2 fertilization and be a fun experiment ,but will definitely need outdoors late summer/autumn to harden up and get that deep cold dormancy for a few months either out my cold frame or in my
Cold storage refridgerator

I also chose this species because the seeds just germinate soon as they touch water for a week or so …..I just really didn’t feel like stratifying any seed at the time😆

also as much as the larch is capable of backbudding the tree should be quite interesting when I apply all the auxin breaking bio stimulant things I have discovered the past couple years onto it ……it’ll probably literally be a chunk of wood full of buds in a pot!!!
Look forward to seeing you experiment with them. Love me some Tamarack :)
 

parhamr

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Is that about 90F max day, and nights low 70’s? That overnight low is probably key to this I think.
+1 for this

Larch seem to do just fine in the Willamette Valley’s summer heat because they get mild overnight temps. We have an extremely predictable 6-8 pm breeze from the ocean, headed back over the continent.
 

cmeg1

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The Tamerack have arrived today and I also ordered the Japanese Larch to see the differances.It seems Tamerack is prefered further north as it does have shorter needles…up to 50% shorter!
Japanese seem prefered into zone 7.

I am glad these need no pre-treatment.I will just give a soak in some fulvic acid and kelp for a day.
A fun experiment!!!!
 

JeffS73

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The Tamerack have arrived today and I also ordered the Japanese Larch to see the differances.It seems Tamerack is prefered further north as it does have shorter needles…up to 50% shorter!
Japanese seem prefered into zone 7.

I am glad these need no pre-treatment.I will just give a soak in some fulvic acid and kelp for a day.
A fun experiment!!!!
Hey Curtis,

You'll have no problem with the Japanese Larch. I normally stratify for 30 days but YMMV. Very high germination rate, they take root cutting well, but don't overdo the IBA - the seedlings will stretch out and grow in a very odd way that isn't helpful. I was pinching and trimming mine once a month or so indoors and they loved it, lots of growth, can be wired when young too. Happy growing.
 

cmeg1

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Here are the Tamarack seeeds….improved selection it sais’ from Unity,Maine.
18 yr old seeds no less,but I was assured these are viable as properly frozen storage.
I will soak for over a day to get the kelp into the embryo.
923E058E-0122-4043-AF97-3293BA8A8B09.jpeg2E2BA983-5C68-46BC-A945-2533D7E0DA64.jpeg
 

GreatLakesBrad

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Here are the Tamarack seeeds….improved selection it sais’ from Unity,Maine.
18 yr old seeds no less,but I was assured these are viable as properly frozen storage.
I will soak for over a day to get the kelp into the embryo.
View attachment 419710View attachment 419711
I have the same batch from Maine! Got great germination this past year, 80-90%. I’m sure you’ll do even better with your approach!
 

cmeg1

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same batch from Maine! Got great germination
So glad to hear this.I was a little worried about 18 year old seeds,but was assured after I made a call to them.

I’m ready to get some nice ones growing honestly……should be quite interesting in the tents!
 
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