Large and neglected nursery Valley Oak (Quercus Lobata)

[Hartinez]

So I recently dug up an Oak from my yard of the house I sold. It was planted 5 yrs ago and almost tripled in girth. I’m quite excited about this tree with smaller lobed leaves. @Bonsai Nut helped me identify it as Quercus Lobata and spike if it’s great promise for bonsai culture. Here is that tree. This species has been on my mind since digging this one from my house.



today, I visited a small nursery in Los Lunas, NM. They had an interesting g selection of trees. Lots of shantung maples, dawn redwoods, Texas redwood and a variety they said was unique to New Mexico. They specialized in oaks though. They had Gambles, Gray oaks, turbinella, scrub and of course quite a few Quercus Lobata and several others I can’t remember. They had quite a few in great shape and a ton of seedlings and 1 gal. They also had this very long row of neglected Lobata with mostly dead trunks and lots of suckers.Some had great trunks but foliage that started 4 ft up. I picked one up with several low branches. I liked some of the others but worried about their ability to back bud on heavy old plated bark. Here is the tree I got for $40. Not sure what my plans on just yet, I just thought I’d share. Hey Greg ( @Bonsai Nut ) how well do these back bud on very old wood?

 

[Hartinez]

Hey @BobbyLane do English oaks bud consistently from old wood? Like heavily textured old wood? The nursery I got the above one from had at least a dozen old Quercus Lobata with foliage aways up, but not down low. Trees with much thicker trunks and very textured bark. Can’t seem to find out if anyone has experience chopping them real heavy. I’d like to get a few, but hoping for a case study or two.

 

[oddirt]

Hey @BobbyLane do English oaks bud consistently from old wood? Like heavily textured old wood? The nursery I got the above one from had at least a dozen old Quercus Lobata with foliage aways up, but not down low. Trees with much thicker trunks and very textured bark. Can’t seem to find out if anyone has experience chopping them real heavy. I’d like to get a few, but hoping for a case study or two.

I have a bunch of Q lobata from seed that were collected nearby where they grow all over the place. The oldest of mine is only 5 years old but I have done regular branch and trunk chops with lots of back budding on the trunk. A lot of the west coast oaks seem to capable of this. @Eric Schrader has a number of posts about working with Q lobata, and might be able to share more experience.l with older trees.

I’m trying to obtain one of every California native tree species and have most of the oaks except Q turbinella. Really hard to find seeds or trees here or online. I might have to take a trip out NM just to nab a couple. Would you mind sharing the name of the nursery?

 

[Mikecheck123]

Love valley oaks and wish I saw more of them. In nature, it's like God's wiring job.

Big trees that make you say, "It's like a giant bonsai"

Yeah it's bitumen, obviously they have just surfaced the road around it. No doubt it is in the local soil beneath that. Going to be a nightmare for the council to keep on top of that but credit to them for leaving it alone. Did some digging and it has either been recommended to be or is(by now)...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[MrFancyPlants]

I don’t think you need back-budding with the onen you have. If it were mine I would try to wire up the branch you have your finger on, to match the existing trunk line, and eventually chop the rest off. But, getting them thriving in some fresh soil would also be first priority. Back budding would be a bonus, but work with what you have.

I think you have a lot of potential; nice tree(s?).

 

[Hartinez]

I have a bunch of Q lobata from seed that were collected nearby where they grow all over the place. The oldest of mine is only 5 years old but I have done regular branch and trunk chops with lots of back budding on the trunk. A lot of the west coast oaks seem to capable of this. @Eric Schrader has a number of posts about working with Q lobata, and might be able to share more experience.l with older trees.

I’m trying to obtain one of every California native tree species and have most of the oaks except Q turbinella. Really hard to find seeds or trees here or online. I might have to take a trip out NM just to nab a couple. Would you mind sharing the name of the nursery?

Hey odddirt. This one came from “trees that please” in Los Lunas NM. They have a pretty large selection of oaks including Turbinella.

 

[Hartinez]

I don’t think you need back-budding with the onen you have. If it were mine I would try to wire up the branch you have your finger on, to match the existing trunk line, and eventually chop the rest off. But, getting them thriving in some fresh soil would also be first priority. Back budding would be a bonus, but work with what you have.

I think you have a lot of potential; nice tree(s?).

As of right now I’ve got that plan. Which will make this tree awfully tall when it’s finished, but that branch lends itself best to a nice line. Problem is the length of trunk below that branch doesn’t have the best branch selection. I may try and source some seedlings from the same nursery as potential thread graft stock. This spring I def plan to repot in to an Andersen flat and completely bare root the crap it’s growing in right now.

 

[Hartinez]

Love valley oaks and wish I saw more of them. In nature, it's like God's wiring job.

Big trees that make you say, "It's like a giant bonsai"

Yeah it's bitumen, obviously they have just surfaced the road around it. No doubt it is in the local soil beneath that. Going to be a nightmare for the council to keep on top of that but credit to them for leaving it alone. Did some digging and it has either been recommended to be or is(by now)...

www.bonsainut.com

Love that movement!

 

[Eric Schrader]

Danny - I've done trunk chops on ground-growing lobata's and they respond pretty vigorously. But the oldest trees I'm working with are only 15 years from acorns.
When I started I consulted with John Thompson who is a local oak enthusiast. He did not collect Lobata generally because of what he noted as a poor habit they have of never budding where you want them to. I've never had the experience that a lobata didn't bud when I cut it, within a couple inches.

I've done trunk chops on many old collected Agrifolia's, which will reliably bud almost anywhere. On the other hand Q douglasii (blue oak) on an old tree will just die after a trunk chop in my experience. Same thing on some Q.berberdifolia, although others have burl formations and bud from them.

 

[Hartinez]

Danny - I've done trunk chops on ground-growing lobata's and they respond pretty vigorously. But the oldest trees I'm working with are only 15 years from acorns.
When I started I consulted with John Thompson who is a local oak enthusiast. He did not collect Lobata generally because of what he noted as a poor habit they have of never budding where you want them to. I've never had the experience that a lobata didn't bud when I cut it, within a couple inches.

I've done trunk chops on many old collected Agrifolia's, which will reliably bud almost anywhere. On the other hand Q douglasii (blue oak) on an old tree will just die after a trunk chop in my experience. Same thing on some Q.berberdifolia, although others have burl formations and bud from them.

Great to know Eric thank you for your insight. The soil this tree is growing in is thick and sticky. It’ll be interesting to see how well it responds after a good bare root and re pot in to bonsai soil mix. The first tree pictured on here is a lobata that I heavily bare rooted and its response was excellent. Have you ever grafted, in particular, thread grafted a Lobata before? If I can’t get a couple buds where I want them, I may try and acquire seedlings from the nursery this large one was grown and thread graft a few key branches. I’m not necessarily looking for an incredibly dense canopy, but more a tall elegant tree with key placement of branches.

 

[Eric Schrader]

Because the younger ones have reliably produced buds where I needed them I've never explored grafting on valley oaks. Actually, never tried any grafting on any oaks. Not a bad idea TBH now that I know blue oaks and sometimes scrub oaks wont back bud reliably.

 

[luvinthemountains]

What a great start, @Hartinez! I love the bark and the base on this tree. I have always been surprised by how well yard trees grow down in the valley there. It is a sharp contrast to the natural vegetation in the area but hey, where there's water!

I didn't even realize you had many temperate species bonsai growing outdoors. I always think of ABQ as a place where you don't leave anything outside unless it is bolted down. And protected by hungry Rottweilers. You must have a pretty secure yard.

 

[Hartinez]

What a great start, @Hartinez! I love the bark and the base on this tree. I have always been surprised by how well yard trees grow down in the valley there. It is a sharp contrast to the natural vegetation in the area but hey, where there's water!

I didn't even realize you had many temperate species bonsai growing outdoors. I always think of ABQ as a place where you don't leave anything outside unless it is bolted down. And protected by hungry Rottweilers. You must have a pretty secure yard.

In terms of weather? Or in terms of theft?
Abq Is 7a sometimes 7b. Our winters are relatively mild. Though this Sunday we are supposed to get down to 9 degrees. I try to only keep trees that can handle that, as I don’t want to keep a ton of trees inside. I do have a handful of ficus and one bougainvillea but that’s it. When I build my house in the mountains I plan on having a green house to expand my species list.

in terms of Abq, I’ve lived in multiple parts of town
and it is as safe as any other city as large.

 

[Hartinez]

Because the younger ones have reliably produced buds where I needed them I've never explored grafting on valley oaks. Actually, never tried any grafting on any oaks. Not a bad idea TBH now that I know blue oaks and sometimes scrub oaks wont back bud reliably.

I’m going to pickup a few seedlings to have on hand and after repot will see how the tree responds.

 

[luvinthemountains]

in terms of Abq, I’ve lived in multiple parts of town
and it is as safe as any other city as large.

The year I lived in Rio Rancho, it really was not bad, but then we were way out on the edge of wilderness. I have one brother who lived several years in Nob Hill, and they had issues with theft. Another lives near CNM, and had his ebike locked up on a second floor balcony stolen. I laughed once walking around Nob Hill when I saw somebody had built a wrought iron fence with a locked gate all around the spot they parked their car. It is a cool town in a lot of ways, but let's just say it has a reputation.

Anyway, back to your tree, I am glad to hear that it responded so well to bare-rooting. I have a cork oak and a holly oak in nursery cans that I am very hesitant to do significant root work on, after reading that it can lead to sudden death with oaks.

I am seeking a permit to collect some gambel oaks from a sandy canyon nearby. We will see how they cope, as I can pretty well predict they will not come out with any native soil.

 

[Colorado]

Hey odddirt. This one came from “trees that please” in Los Lunas NM. They have a pretty large selection of oaks including Turbinella.

Great find! Anything with a trunk that size would surely exceed $100 at any of the nurseries I know of up here in Denver ...

Nice!

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Hey Greg ( @Bonsai Nut ) how well do these back bud on very old wood?

I have never chopped a tree of that girth before. All I can say is that they are very strong and seem to bud back readily on smaller stock.

Also, it is one of very few trees that will thicken significantly when planted in a 12" pond basket - even while being top pruned.

 

[Hartinez]

I have never chopped a tree of that girth before. All I can say is that they are very strong and seem to bud back readily on smaller stock.

Also, it is one of very few trees that will thicken significantly when planted in a 12" pond basket - even while being top pruned.

Great to know. The one in the first pic also back budded well, but the bark wasn’t near as plated as the other tree pictured. I’m confident though. I’m really hopeful for these trees and species in general. Any deciduous with great character, that can live outside year round, with little protection in my climate, that isn’t an elm, is a win. It’s 5 degrees outside today with harsh winds. We shall see. Thanks for the response Greg.

 

[jquast]

I've been able to get backbudding on 20 year old material on a healthy and strong tree when reducing the top.

 

[Trenthany]

Because the younger ones have reliably produced buds where I needed them I've never explored grafting on valley oaks. Actually, never tried any grafting on any oaks. Not a bad idea TBH now that I know blue oaks and sometimes scrub oaks wont back bud reliably.

What we call scrub in FL back buds very well and layers well. I have no doubt most oaks will graft after experimenting with layers.

This layer is only from last fall off a tree of approx. 20 years and almost every bud is starting to pop and new leaves are popping on the trunk itself. It was an experiment that seems very successful. I’ll layer it into a few more pieces before I start working any of them as bonsai.