Large diamater elm hardwood cuttings.

Dav4

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Tomorrow, I'll be cutting back the sacrifice branches on a bunch of in ground stock, including some dwarf Chinese elms...'seiju' and 'hokkaido'. Some of the cuts will be made trough 1-2" thick trunks. They are dormant now, but I'm wondering if it would be worth my while to try to strike them as hardwood cuttings. Anybody out there with experience doing this? I'd love to here from you.
 

Eric Group

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I have found Elm to be extremely easy to root.

100% Pearlite should give you really high success rates... Mix it with a little turface if you want to add some weight to the mix.
 

M. Frary

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I would use some bottom heat too. I started 3 last winter and they sprouted leaves and grew small branches. Then they got frosted in the spring and died. They had started little tiny roots when I did they autopsy.
 

0soyoung

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If you've ever made air-layers, you probably know that nothing happens with deciduous species until after the foliage has hardened in spring. The rooting process is driven by photsyntate and auxin descending in the phloem. The same must be true for a cutting - it just has to survive without water supplied by the mother plant.

So, I would wrap the cuttings in plastic and put them in the refigerator until spring; then do pretty much as the others have advised in this thread. Aternatively, it has been a standard practice of gardeners to bundle cuttings and 'heel (partially bury) them in' outside over the winter.

BTW, thanks for bring this up. I have been planning to chop off a fairly big chunk of my suiju, but I hadn't thought about rooting the cutting. :D
 
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edprocoat

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Eric you have rooted 1-2 inch trunk pieces? That's good to know as I have tossed away pieces that are almost an inch thinking it useless to try. Now I could kick myself !

ed
 

milehigh_7

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I have a whole tray from 1/4" to over an inch. Many seem to be pushing leaves. Dipped in 1:5 dip n' grow and stuck em in 2" pots. I will keep you posted. Fingers and eyeballs crossed.

Oh I just did two root cuttings that are over an inch as well. gave similar treatment except wrapped the cuts in sphagnum.

I should say that all are outside no bottom heat no misting.
 

Dav4

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If you've ever made air-layers, you probably know that nothing happens with deciduous species until after the foliage has hardened in spring. The rooting process is driven by photsyntate and auxin descending in the phloem. The same must be true for a cutting - it just has to survive without water supplied by the mother plant.

So, I would wrap the cuttings in plastic and put them in the refigerator until spring; then do pretty much as the others have advised in this thread. Aternatively, it has been a standard practice of gardeners to bundle cuttings and 'heel (partially bury) them in' outside over the winter.

BTW, thanks for bring this up. I have been planning to chop off a fairly big chunk of my suiju, but I hadn't thought about rooting the cutting. :D
Thanks for this....and ...you're welcome;).
I think I'll heel them into the garden for now. Our growing season starts in about 6 weeks...almost there.
 

bwaynef

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Why not wait 'til closer to growing season?
 

Dav4

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Why not wait 'til closer to growing season?
Honestly, I've got the time to do it now but can't guarantee I will later. Also, the "6 weeks until growing season starts" comment is more of a guess. A few years ago, I had in ground tridents pushing leaves in January so who knows.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Supposed to be down in the teens this weekend...
And fwiw, I've had better success propagating root cuttings and air layering branches on the parviflora cultivars. Branch cuttings always seemed to fail.
 

Dav4

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Thanks Brian. I just looked at the 5 day forecast...14 F Saturday. Oh well...I pruned back the Ume but held off on the elms for now. Fwiw, there's nothing special about the sacrifice portion of the elms...just thought it might be cool to get them to grow. I also need to figure out when I can plant out the 50 trident and palmatum seedlins I got from Matt O back in December...not this weekend, I guess.
 
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I've had a go with very large Cork bark elm cuttings and had next to no success. In the photo below, the tree on the left was the cutting donor (and still lives)

One cutting died almost immediately and the other two limped through the first year - and a further one died over the first winter.

The final one (the largest on the right) has largely died - leaving a single, narrow live vein.



6992591811_da9889e697_b.jpg
 

Eric Group

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Eric you have rooted 1-2 inch trunk pieces? That's good to know as I have tossed away pieces that are almost an inch thinking it useless to try. Now I could kick myself !

ed
Yes sir.... On the Jackie Hiller Elms I have, one I rooted last year was right at an inch... Now, I will say this: most the cuttings I have had the most success with- of any species- were taken later in the year. Generally you won't get any roots until temps get to about 70 degrees, and the smaller ones especially it seems do not have sufficient energy/ hormones stored in the cutting to keep them alive until the temps get higher if they are taken before leaf break... The larger cuttings have more stored energy and hormones and seem to live longer even through cold weather to pop leaves and potentially roots once it gets warm enough. It is easier/ better to wait, but there is no reason not to TRY it...
 

Eric Group

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I've had a go with very large Cork bark elm cuttings and had next to no success. In the photo below, the tree on the left was the cutting donor (and still lives)

One cutting died almost immediately and the other two limped through the first year - and a further one died over the first winter.

The final one (the largest on the right) has largely died - leaving a single, narrow live vein.



6992591811_da9889e697_b.jpg

I do not own a corker, but heard/ read that mature cuttings on these and Arakawa Maples are difficult. The played bark is not as readily able/ willing to sprout roots as smoother bark on young wood or species that so not produce such gnarly, plated bark. From what I have heard it is easier to take cuttings from these species on young wood.
 

edprocoat

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Thanks Brian. I just looked at the 5 day forecast...14 F Saturday. Oh well...I pruned back the Ume but held off on the elms for now. Fwiw, there's nothing special about the sacrifice portion of the elms...just thought it might be cool to get them to grow. I also need to figure out when I can plant out the 50 trident and palmatum seedlins I got from Matt O back in December...not this weekend, I guess.

14 degrees on Saturday ! That's rough. The place you volunteer at with the Bonsai collection, I can't remember the name of it, will they have to be moved or covered in that weather as it has been so much warmer until now ? LOL I hope I do not have you confused with someone else !

ed
 

milehigh_7

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Yes sir.... On the Jackie Hiller Elms I have, one I rooted last year was right at an inch... Now, I will say this: most the cuttings I have had the most success with- of any species- were taken later in the year. Generally you won't get any roots until temps get to about 70 degrees, and the smaller ones especially it seems do not have sufficient energy/ hormones stored in the cutting to keep them alive until the temps get higher if they are taken before leaf break... The larger cuttings have more stored energy and hormones and seem to live longer even through cold weather to pop leaves and potentially roots once it gets warm enough. It is easier/ better to wait, but there is no reason not to TRY it...

That might be why mine seem to be taking. It has been in the mid 70's to low 80's for the past week.
 

erb.75

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I've had a go with very large Cork bark elm cuttings and had next to no success. In the photo below, the tree on the left was the cutting donor (and still lives)

One cutting died almost immediately and the other two limped through the first year - and a further one died over the first winter.

The final one (the largest on the right) has largely died - leaving a single, narrow live vein.



6992591811_da9889e697_b.jpg
this has been my experience...the ones that seem to root struggle...send out some shoots, but within a year they just fail for whatever reason...i've not had much luck with 1''+ sizes. I have 1/4 to 1/2'' sizes with good success. 3 out of 3 (from the same tree taken at the same size). Those are now being grown as ROR cuttings over rocks, coral, and a chinese soapstone pillar with a dragon up top. I plant to post pictures of them next year or the year after when I check the roots :) It's hard to hold a camera, take pictures, and do bonsai work involving soil!
 

erb.75

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for reference, mine were yatsubusa elm cuttings...I can't remember if it was cork bark too. Might have been. They are so similar it's hard to tell the cultivar's apart by just looking at it honestly.
 
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