Large larch FULL of ants...

[mattspinniken]

I was hoping the Bonsainut crew could help me brainstorm this. I just collected a beautiful larch yesterday, probably the best larch I have ever collected. The foliage looks very healthy on this big tree but I am quite sure that the trunk is hollow and the tree has a ton of ants in it. When I sawed a larger root near the base the root was hollow and it had about 50 ants come out.

Does anyone know if ants eat boring insects? This tree like most old larch has old evidence of borer damage, im more worried about bores than ants.

I did a light insecticide spray but I may try the Nick Lenz method and cover the tree with a tarp and spray the tree.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Does anyone know if ants eat boring insects?

They do, but they rarely actively hunt for them.

 

[rockm]

Most likely these are carpenter ants and have nest somewhere in the tree. Search for rotten hollows on the trunk, as well as in larger roots below ground. They like moist areas and tunnel in rotting wood.

 

[mattspinniken]

Most likely these are carpenter ants and have nest somewhere in the tree. Search for rotten hollows on the trunk, as well as in larger roots below ground. They like moist areas and tunnel in rotting wood.

Thanks Rockm, any thoughts on how the ants might effect the health of the tree?

 

[Forsoothe!]

They won't kill the tree, but they won't leave unless you force them to go, which means kill them. You need an all of the above program: systemic, bait, & fog. That will make the tree hard to handle, AKA touch, because anything that kills ants sickens or kill humans, too. You will need to wear rubber gloves until the stuff wears off.

 

[Cajunrider]

Beautiful tree.
If it were mine, I would take it in the shade, make a plastic tent and fog it. Then the next day, I will mix a couple gallon of Bifenthrin and douse it. I will make sure to get every nook and crack. I'll leave it on for 24 hours and then hose the entire tree down. It will be OK to handle afterward.
PS: I've done this even to rare tropical fruit trees that I buy from nurseries when I see sign of insects. Some times for good measure, I might even douse the tree with Neem oil before letting it be in my yard.

 

[rockm]

They tunnel in wood, not live tissue, BUT there are still a couple of issues. First, their tunneling COULD affect live tissue as they chew the interior wood. If that activity continues around the tree, it could girdle the live tissue. Also, tunneling removes supporting wood, which could lead to structural problems with the tree's ability to stand The tunneling also produces mushy soil.

I would poke around hte tree with a chopstick probing all around. You will likely find soft spots on the trunk and roots. you're going to have to push into those areas and gouge out the wood and ants. I've done this with an oak I have. Find the nest, disturb it and the remaining ants will probably flee...Tenting the tree with insecticide can work, but it's a pain in the butt and requires the tree to be tented in the plastic for some time...

 

[Colorado]

Personally, I would try a more moderate approach before going nuclear option(s).

What about just spraying it down really well with a hose for a few days in a row to begin manually reducing the ant population?

 

[rockm]

Personally, I would try a more moderate approach before going nuclear option(s).

What about just spraying it down really well with a hose for a few days in a row to begin manually reducing the ant population?

Will not work. Ants are not deterred by water. They have adapted to living underground, which means they can handle flooding. Doing this could wind up driving them deeper inside the tree...

 

[penumbra]

Don't know if this will work for you, but when I find a nursery pot filled the ants I put it in a bucket of water for several hours, or even overnight.

 

[Colorado]

Will not work. Ants are not deterred by water. They have adapted to living underground, which means they can handle flooding. Doing this could wind up driving them deeper inside the tree...

Well, I don’t have any personal experience with ant infestation so I am not going to argue, but if it were me I would not be fumigating a bonsai tree. It sounds absurd and highly unsafe from a number of angles.

 

[rockm]

Well, I don’t have any personal experience with ant infestation so I am not going to argue, but if it were me I would not be fumigating a bonsai tree. It sounds absurd and highly unsafe from a number of angles.

It's not great, which is why I suggest the physical route first. I've fumigated a couple of collected boxwood for ants and termites. It worked pretty well. Finding and destroying the nest by digging it out and disturbing the ants work better. Insect infestation is fairly common thing for collected trees...

 

[penumbra]

Don't know the best way to use it with a live plant as I don't know its effects on a plant, but boric acid powder is deadly on ants. Also, diatomaceous earth powder, like that used in a filter, is deadly on ants but they have to be in contact with it.
Going out on a limb with this one, but how about the ant baits you can buy at almost any store. The work great in a house. The ant takes it back to the nest and it destroys the colony.

 

[rockm]

Don't know if this will work for you, but when I find a nursery pot filled the ants I put it in a bucket of water for several hours, or even overnight.

I suspect the ants in this tree are up in the trunk or older parts of the root mass and are probably well-established. Submerging nursery pots can work because the ants are just in the soil. With older material like this, they're set in deep. Submerging the root mass won't affect the ants higher in the tree. Might flush out ants in the root mass, but probably won't get the critters higher up

 

[rockm]

Don't know the best way to use it with a live plant as I don't know its effects on a plant, but boric acid powder is deadly on ants. Also, diatomaceous earth powder, like that used in a filter, is deadly on ants but they have to be in contact with it.
Going out on a limb with this one, but how about the ant baits you can buy at almost any store. The work great in a house. The ant takes it back to the nest and it destroys the colony.

This might be worth trying...

 

[A. Gorilla]

Fumigate.

Put in a large garbage bag.

Vinegar and baking soda in large jug react and form C02.

CO2 drives out regular air and O2.

Ants asphyxiate in a day or two.

 

[BrianBay9]

Fumigate.

Put in a large garbage bag.

Vinegar and baking soda in large jug react and form C02.

CO2 drives out regular air and O2.

Ants asphyxiate in a day or two.

That's an interesting approach that I wouldn't have considered. Have you done this successfully? Insect oxygen requirements are vanishingly small, but not zero. I guess you'd have to let the C02 displace the air in the bag before sealing it up?

 

[A. Gorilla]

That's an interesting approach that I wouldn't have considered. Have you done this successfully? Insect oxygen requirements are vanishingly small, but not zero. I guess you'd have to let the C02 displace the air in the bag before sealing it up?

Yes. Seal.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I've had insects survive about 48 hours in pure gaseous butane.
Three to four days of continuous CO2 flow from the bottom can be helpful. Most aquarium stores sell CO2 in tanks.

 

[A. Gorilla]

I've had insects survive about 48 hours in pure gaseous butane.
Three to four days of continuous CO2 flow from the bottom can be helpful. Most aquarium stores sell CO2 in tanks.

Did they consent to getting high with you?

Do you dutchman do anything else besides go to raves?