Large Paperbark concerns ...

[cishepard]

My husband bought me this Acer griseum for Xmas. It was from a local bonsai nursery and was developed by the owner for the past 30 years - I believe it has been in this pot for a long time. It has it’s issues one of which is it’s height. When I got it in winter it looked like this:



I should have chopped the tall, straight portion of the trunk, but my husband was agahst at the thought (I shouldn’t have mentioned it), so I only pruned the branches back, figuring I would give it a year with a crown of foliage and then start the real work on it, hoping to get a profusion of buds on the lower trunk. The problem is that is has been extremely slow to leaf out - I was afraid it was dead for the longest time as all my other maples started months ago and are all in full leaf now (same with full size paperbarks in the neighborhood).

Here is what it looks like today, 3 sides and the leaves. The tree is 35” tall:






So, I am not sure what to do to improve the situation. I don’t know what to make of the weak growth. Maybe a repot, root assessment and leave the top alone for another year? Opinions very welcome!

 

[NOZZLE HEAD]

Fertilizer .

 

[cishepard]

I have been lightly feeding since the buds broke. Miracle grow once a week.

 

[Forsoothe!]

"Maybe a repot, root assessment and leave the top alone for another year?" Yes, and fertilizer continued. And when you are pleased with its health, chop back to what you want. The bottom section has a lot of potential.

 

[sorce]

I would weigh it. Water it weigh it. Submerge it for hours and weigh it again.

Then aerate the soil with toothpicks.
And do it again!

Sorce

 

[JoeR]

I would weigh it. Water it weigh it. Submerge it for hours and weigh it again.

Then aerate the soil with toothpicks.
And do it again!

Sorce

This, aerating the soil, combined with putting it into something with plenty of space for the roots to grow would be my suggestion

 

[_#1_]

Looking at the first pic and comparing it to the second pic, I think you have pruned off all the previous year's buds.

All the new growth looks like from dormant buds. Maybe that's why it's been lagging.

From my experience, these are pretty slow grower.

Edit: I would not mess with the roots this season if soil still drains well. I killed my other Paperbark by messing with it too much.

 

[August44]

There is sure something going on there. I would guess a repot and root prune in the spring would help (not now of course). Then when healthy, chop about 3 soda cans high. What is the analysis on the miracle grow your using?

 

[cishepard]

Thank you for your responses, though I’m still insure how to proceed. My other maples (Japan and Amur) all sprouted profusely on their trunks after chopping, with many new branches to choos from. I guess Acer griseum just behaves differently. I think I will pull it from the pot and take a look and then wait for the current growth to mature before I do anything else. If it looks thick and rootbound then maybe a mid summer repot and look towards another chop next Spring if it responds well.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I would not, I repeat, not repot in middle of summer. Wait until spring.

I think @Microscopic was right, your pruning of the fine twigs removed all the buds that normally would have sprouted in spring. The long wait was for dormant buds to sprout. You have severely depleted this tree's energy reserves. Its natural growth pattern is not at all like an Amur or Japanese maple. It is not a vigorous species when grown in a pot.

Go easy on the fertilizer. Yes, do fertilize, but dilute. If the soil is not draining, using a bamboo skewer to aerate the soil is appropriate, it will help you to limp it to the ideal repotting season of early spring. Do not risk it repotting in summer of autumn. The vigor is not there. This tree is "damn near dead". I would also allow one season of no pruning, to allow vigorous growth before doing a major chop back. The tree's response for this year shows it does not respond well to pruning. The tree should be as vigorous as possible, with abundant new growth before chopping back. Earliest I would chop this tree is 2022.

But I have not raised A. griseum, this is from my experience with other maples. But if it were mine, I certainly would be conservative, and go slow with it. It clearly did not like what was done to it recently.

 

[cishepard]

Thank you Leo, that sounds like the most reasonable and conservative advice. I don’t want this tree to die - it was an expensive gift : )

 

[just.wing.it]

Don't repot now. I think @Microscopic is on too something.

Edit......and Leo too....of course......smartypants.

 

[AlainK]

Sorry if my reply sounds a bit "blunt" but :

1/ I don't think that cuts heal as well as in other maple species (palmatum, buergerianum, campestre,...)

2/ I live in "USDA zone 8", and it's always the last one to bud out. Even this year when we had an all-time temperature record for the month of May, it budded out in the last week of March, when all my other maples (palmatum & al.) were already in full leaf.

3/ the compound leaves make it a "difficult" subject for bonsai. What's more, the internodes are quite long compared to other species and the branches very straight while at the same time they break faster than other maple species when you want to wire them.

Frankly, I don't think that Acer griseum is a good candidate for bonsai, or maybe it is, but for those who already know a lot about maples and bonsai.

The daughter of a friend asked me to help her choose a 'Deshojo' for her mother's 60th birthday, from different online stores. I was very cautious, telling her that it's always difficult to appreciate the qualities and faults of an "oline tree", even where thare are photos of several sides of the tree in full leaves. But for the price, it was so disappointing, and I felt so guilty that I keep on giving her little trees or plants

Back to your tree : slip-pot it. Put it in a wider container/pot, and fill the empty space between the rootball and the side of the pot with 90% non-organic soil (pozzolane, lava rock is the best I think) and 10% composted pine bark (I know in most places it's hard to find, some good compost is OK).

Here's my Acer griseum. I had another one bought at the same time that I tried to prune to see if I could make it a bonsai, it died. So I keep this one as part of my collection of Acer.

To me, that's what we call "un cadeau empoisonné", "a poisoned gift", something that brings more trouble than anything

 

[cishepard]

Not blunt at all, very useful in fact! I am in zone 8 as well, and we have had a particularly cold and wet Spring. I am glad to know that paperbarks are normally late to bud out. Sounds like I might be lucky that the tree is still alive after my cutback. I had done some research on the species after I recieved the tree, so I realize that it is not an ideal bonsai subject, however the trunk is nice and impressive - even if I leave the straight part and just develop the canopy as is (maybe pull branches down to conceal the upper trunk) and I do like this tree, very much. I am drawn to oddballs, as well. With it’s larger leaves and long internodes, it is probably better off as a taller bonsai, anyway.
Thank you for your input!

 

[0soyoung]

It does make a fantastic landscape planting, though.

 

[Ohmy222]

You won't find much on this species. It is a great landscape tree but not too common because it is difficult to propagate. I have only seen one example of a 'nice' one and it was probably the only one i have seen bigger than yours. I would leave it alone until dormant and then make the cut(s) you wanted. you might have to do a deep cut as many species only throw out bud up high. Then I would do a conservative repot, maybe half or so. They do have any odd growth pattern but I have found it somewhat easy to keep ramified. Mine is only a quarter of the size of yours so I don't have a lot of history to give you. Mine has responded well to repotting and chops. It does seem to be a slow grower but I haven't left it alone for a growing season yet so that could be my doing. Ideally it you need to ground layer because you will never fix those roots. Not sure how they react to layering but I haven't found a non-pine I couldn't layer after a couple of tries. Should be good but still would wait until your growth is strong. I would also rewound the wounds, hollow them some, and seal to smooth out some of the knots. I think there is a unique tree in there.

 

[cishepard]

A year and 4 months update on my Paperbark Maple.

I repotted the tree in Jan. 2021. The roots looked good and it was in a proper bonsai mix (pumice, lava, granite and bark), so I, did not bare root the tree. I had a slightly smaller, but deeper pot, and was able to get rid of the “hill” it was sitting on previously.
Over the summer it leafed out way better than the year before and at a certain point I trimmed the branches back to the second pair of leaves and got an additional flush. However, that group of leaves hardly grew. I guess that’s why they say this variety is extremely slow growing.
With that in mind, I am trying to determine how to ramify the branches - the internodes are very long, it does not like to be cut back, and only seems to want to put out one and 1/2 flushes a year ….. ¯\(°_o)/¯



I have been doing some research on Acer Griseum and found the following resources and photos:

https://www.makebonsai.com/SpeciesGuide/Acer-griseum

https://forum.bonsaimirai.com/t/paperbark-maple-acer-griseum/6757

 

[NaoTK]

I actually own this one. It was repotted earlier this year into a larger pot but has been sluggish all year. It is a very old tree and many random twigs died early in the spring.

I plan to thread graft a number of important branches next year, so I bought some nursery whips. Looking at older cuts, it seems to heal quite well actually. The fact that it exfoliates means we can hide those cuts well. I expect the thread grafts to take several years to fuse.

 

[cishepard]

I actually own this one. It was repotted earlier this year into a larger pot but has been sluggish all year. It is a very old tree and many random twigs died early in the spring.

I plan to thread graft a number of important branches next year, so I bought some nursery whips. Looking at older cuts, it seems to heal quite well actually. The fact that it exfoliates means we can hide those cuts well. I expect the thread grafts to take several years to fuse.

Thanks for responding, @NaoTK !
I often save photos from threads and neglect to record who to credit … sorry about that.
Do you have any words of wisdom for pruning these trees for ramification? Your tree has some nice shorter internodes and decent secondary and tertiary branching.

 

[NaoTK]

I just got the tree earlier this year so I don't know how my branches were created. But I've studied other paperbark maples and they seem to respond well to chopping by back budding. I would recommend growing out and chopping back to the first internode over and over until you get a back bud with an internode length you are happy with. Chop in June of course.