Large slant style Trident.

[Adair M]

flor1,

What kinds of trees have the jins? I live in N. Georgia, and the oaks that have dead branches will have them fall off in a year or so. Deadwood rots in our climate. Smaller branches fall off, and the tree heals over. Larger wound rot out, and you get a hollow trunk.

Jins are naturally occuring in the "high desert" kinds of trees like juniper or mountain pines. The wood gets sunbleached out.

 

[Smoke]

Sometimes it is OK to just plant a tree in the yard and look for something with better attributes.

Life is too short.......

 

[MACH5]

I like Mach5's virt. However, there is a big problem. The design is a botanical impossibilty. A tree would not have branches that grow in this manner. Also, the strongest branches would eminate from the bottom of the trunk area. Of course there are some things in bonsai that are not usually found in nature, so it would be the artist's discretion.



Thanks Rob! Glad you like the design. As far as it being a "botanical impossibility" I very respectfully disagree. Please see pic below. As many of us are aware, nature can be unpredictable, surprising and even plain 'ol bizarre. Within certain botanical parameters, it's really hard to say what nature won't do.

 

[october]

I like Mach5's virt. However, there is a big problem. The design is a botanical impossibilty. A tree would not have branches that grow in this manner. Also, the strongest branches would eminate from the bottom of the trunk area. Of course there are some things in bonsai that are not usually found in nature, so it would be the artist's discretion.



Thanks Rob! Glad you like the design. As far as it being a "botanical impossibility" I very respectfully disagree. Please see pic below. As many of us are aware, nature can be unpredictable, surprising and even plain 'ol bizarre. Within certain botanical parameters, it's really hard to say what nature won't do.


View attachment 31433

Ok,, I retract the impossiblity statement..lol.. It looks so un-natural. Does mother nature know about this tree..lol...It looks photoshopped. I know it is not, but it really does look fake.

Thanks for posting the pic.

Rob

 

[MACH5]

Hahaha! No worries Rob all good here but yes this is clearly a tree gone rogue!

 

[flor1]

flor1,

What kinds of trees have the jins? I live in N. Georgia, and the oaks that have dead branches will have them fall off in a year or so. Deadwood rots in our climate. Smaller branches fall off, and the tree heals over. Larger wound rot out, and you get a hollow trunk.

Jins are naturally occuring in the "high desert" kinds of trees like juniper or mountain pines. The wood gets sunbleached out.

Look at the Maples hickory even the Hollys takes years for branches to fall off if ever.
Look at trees with lightning strikes in the top will last for the same amount of time if not more.

 

[Adair M]

Hmm... I have a white oak in my pasture where the lightning hit it about 4 years ago. The whole side is dying out. First, the leaves browned out. Then none grew back. The little twigs started dropping off. Only the larger skeleton branches remained. The bark loosened up, the woodpeckers started having a field day drilling holes to get the carpenter ants and carpenter bees that nested in the dead wood. Now, those stronger skeleton branches are dropping the bark entirely, and all it will take is a strong wind for the branch to fall. All in about 4 years.

Along the trunk, the bark on one side is loose. The tree is callousing up on each side of the black streak, and may eventually heal over, it may not. It will probably eventually rot out in the center and become hollow. We'll see.

All this is happening within 4 or 5 years.

When we talk about jin, it should be something that would be a permanent feature on the tree. Something that will last for decades, if not centuries. The deadwood on a bristlecone pine could last for millinea. Years are very short in the timeframe of a tree.

Of course, there can be exceptions to every "rule". But generally speaking, jins are not a feature of decidous trees.

 

[Poink88]

My rule for bonsai is there is, no rule...only guidelines.

I agree mostly with what Adair M said but I feel that we as the bonsai creator have the latitude on choosing which snap shot at the stage of the tree development we want to portray. If we want a jin on a broadleaf, by all means do it. Just know that it is not a permanent feature (even with preservative treatment) and will eventually go away. That is part of the unending bonsai saga anyway so all is good.

Both camps are correct and there is room for both in bonsai as well.

 

[JudyB]

I like Mach5's virt, and I also like the full on raft idea Rob. This tree would do well as a raft. Just to throw a real bonsai (hawthorn) out there that has this flavor, take a look...

http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATdamagedhawthorn.htm

 

[MACH5]

That is a great example of what you can do with seemingly poor material.

 

[terry]

OK to move things forward I have no plans to jin the trident. Right now I would like to see what new branching develops on the trunk and make a decision at that time. While playing around with the pot it may move to a informal upright at the time of re-potting. I have dug down and there is a nice surface root development just under the surface I will be gone most of the month of March. The plan is to attach again around the 1st of April. That should be good timing this year in Michigan. I really do appreciate the discussion on this project. New pics will come later.
Thanks, Terry

 

[terry]

Trident re-potted this week

The trident has been placed in a new pot after pretty severe root pruning to allow the trunk to be placed upright. Have tried to secure the tree well so new roots will not be disturbed.H]

 

[Don Blackmond]

That is a much better route to go. Sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forwards.

See you tomorrow.

Don

 

[terry]

Thanks Don, looking forward to it. I am fortunate to be able to drive down to Don's place and pick up 3 trees that have called to me all winter. A very nice Elm followed me home last year and has wintered well. The buds are nearly ready to open. Come on spring.

 

[Poink88]

Sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forwards.

I agree. In this case, I probably would have taken a few more steps back.

 

[terry]

I agree. In this case, I probably would have taken a few more steps back.

Please elaborate. I really agonized on how much of the original tree to remove. I finally chickened out and left quite a bit above the fork figuring it could always be taken later. This is totally new for me and decided the investment was small enough that could use the trees to learn.

Terry

 

[terry]

I agree. In this case, I probably would have taken a few more steps back.

Poink88 I haven't noticed you being so silent. Please....................

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Tough to make those cuts sometimes. But...since you went this far, consider reducing the heavier branch (left one in the third photo of post 32) by another 50%, and commit to the right side as the trunk line. If you do a virt of the branch structure over a few years, it will probably become clear how much it should be reduced so you're building a branch structure on a branch that starts with some taper and movement.

The worst thing is building a nice ramified structure out on the end of a Lincoln log, because it all has to go to fix it later!

 

[terry]

The trident has been placed in a new pot after pretty severe root pruning to allow the trunk to be placed upright. Have tried to secure the tree well so new roots will not be disturbed.View attachment 33556H]View attachment 33557View attachment 33558

Here are some pictures of the tree as the new leaders are going out. Still trying to decide if both sides of the fork will be kept or will keep the left and remove the outside branch at the fork. Roots have taken hold well and tree is growing well. There are several buds waiting to develop along the trunk. Welcome your ideas. As stated in a previous post not a lot invested in this tree so am trying to learn from it.

The growing season so far in SW Michigan has been good, lots of rain and humidity and not a lot of heat.

Terry

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

Yeah, the weather's been wonderful lately. Not too dry at all, but no crazy low or high temperatures.

Have you considered (or has anyone yet suggested) doing a ground layer to try to develop a new nebari? I can't see it right now, so I don't know what kind of crown you have to work with there...but you can certainly improve the look by ground layering at the fattest part and trying to develop a new one. And if you have a hard, round, and large-ish piece of plastic, you can secure it really right just beneath the layer site to serve as an impenetrable surface to get the emerging roots to spread radially, which would help you (hopefully) attain an impressive flared nebari.