Las Vegas...

[brush painter]

Yes, he is back and he is acting abusively insulting me as a Christian.
No one has provoked him!
His opened his mouth like an abyss and he has NO right to insult people who believe.
There is NO justification for this attitude.I have reported this post and I am awaiting the response of the Administrator.

I am sure you will get over it... and go about your day.
Just as us Non-Religious Types have to do pretty much every day,
living in World that everyone thinks Imaginary Beings should rule, and
that give them rights... like to own Guns.

 

[berobinson82]

God dammit I missed you.

 

[ianb]

Yes, he is back and he is acting abusively insulting me as a Christian.
No one has provoked him!
His opened his mouth like an abyss and he has NO right to insult people who believe.
There is NO justification for this attitude.I have reported this post and I am awaiting the response of the Administrator.

No he didn't insult you, he gave his opinion on god, didn't even mention the christian god either. If he had said believers in a christian god are stupid then it would have been an insult...see the difference?
Then you went ahead and insulted him personally...nothing like inventing abuse then turning around and abusing is there?

There is no god, there are no god given rights. Your rights are what your society deems they are.

 

[Vance Wood]

God can go Fuck himself!

You do not have to believe in God to Be Good.

Sawgrass, aka Stacy Allen Muse, aka brush painter said: I can piss on a Cross all day long, does not mean I am going to hurt anyone. In fact, the opposite can very easily be argued... That one believing in fairy tales, and imaginary beings is a sign of mental illness and one should seek medical assistance. So you believe that Christians are suffering from a mental illness?

There is no way this cannot be taken as a verbal assault on Christianity. You cannot deny this is pointed at Christ. @ ianb you wrote; There is no god, there are no god given rights. Your rights are what your society deems they are. Like it or not it is your society too.

The Declaration of Independence states: We find these truths to be self evident that man is endowed by his creator with certain unalienable rights among which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; or words to that effect. That sounds like the entire reason we went to war with Great Briton was because we did not want the British telling us how we had to worship God.

 

[ianb]

The first 2 do not mention christianity, the third paragraph says can be argued...not an attack but an opposing viewpoint. I'm sure if some random guy started spouting off some of the crazy things in the bible and you had never heard them before you would say he was crazy. The fact is the society we are in has been steeped in this lore for 1600 years (by sword point in some cases) so it doesn't sound so outlandish, but taken at face value you must admit some of it is pretty out there.

The war with Great Britain was over taxes and self determination if I remember correctly, but you can make it about religion if you want. After all you guys seem to enjoy made up stories.

 

[Vance Wood]

The first 2 do not mention christianity, the third paragraph says can be argued...not an attack but an opposing viewpoint. I'm sure if some random guy started spouting off some of the crazy things in the bible and you had never heard them before you would say he was crazy. The fact is the society we are in has been steeped in this lore for 1600 years (by sword point in some cases) so it doesn't sound so outlandish, but taken at face value you must admit some of it is pretty out there.

The war with Great Britain was over taxes and self determination if I remember correctly, but you can make it about religion if you want. After all you guys seem to enjoy made up stories.

Have you ever read the Decleration? Of course the economics played into it but so did God and --------Guns. I don't have to make this stuff up it's right there.

 

[Paradox]

Wheee

Politics, religion and gun control all in one amazing thread of awesomeness.


Might as well chime in again.

I grew up with a very religious mother and I do believe there is a God. I dont adhere to any specific religion (catholic vs baptist vs lutheran, etc) other than to say that I am of the Christian faith.

I do believe SOME of the issues facing society stems from a lack of faith by some people. Mainly a lack of decency some people treat others with.

Get the guns, we're talking religion now...lol

 

[Paradox]

Have you ever read the Decleration? Of course the economics played into it but so did God and --------Guns. I don't have to make this stuff up it's right there.

Yep. Religious freedom was part of it besides taxation and equal representation of all people in the government

 

[Vance Wood]

Wheee

Politics, religion and gun control all in one amazing thread of awesomeness.


Might as well chime in again.

I grew up with a very religious mother and I do believe there is a God. I dont adhere to any specific religion (catholic vs baptist vs lutheran, etc) other than to say that I am of the Christian faith.

I do believe SOME of the issues facing society stems from a lack of faith by some people. Mainly a lack of decency some people treat others with.

Get the guns, we're talking religion now...lol

What happens to your trees when you stop applying inseticides when necessary, or you refuse to apply fertilizer? This is what happens when you toss God out of your existence. Things just start to decline and eventually they die.

 

[Carol 83]

I think it is a shame, that a thread that was started because of a horrific tragedy, that caused the loss of so many lives, has turned into..... this.

 

[Paradox]

What happens to your trees when you stop applying inseticides when necessary, or you refuse to apply fertilizer? This is what happens when you toss God out of your existence. Things just start to decline and eventually they die.

I think religion also offers hope to some people that there is something better besides providing guidance in every day life. Something to aspire to.

It's different for everyone so it's hard to explain

 

[justBonsai]

Personally I believe in a "god" or higher being but do not adhere to any specific religion. I am from a pretty culturally diverse background. Because I am of Taiwanese heritage everyone on my Taiwanese side of the family including my dad is very Buddhist. My mom having lived in Utah most of her life comes from a very Mormon background although she is not Mormon herself. When I was in scouting I had a lot of Christian influences around me since our troop operated on church grounds.

Back when I was a scout the idea of believing in a God or high faith was integrated in its code, oath, and laws. It was actually a requirement to believe in a higher faith (did not matter what kind) or at least pretend you did. I knew of one friend who during his eagle board of review openly admitted he was atheist. They actually denied him his eagle rank despite the years of effort he put in.

I will say this. Religion and quality/character of a person are NOT mutually inclusive. There are a lot of scum and bullshitters in every faith out there. Conversely there are people of great character and "morality" that are atheist.

It wrong for people to use religion as a means to spread your values and impose them on others. If your values and beliefs cannot stand on their own, backing it with religion does NOT make it any more valid.

Religion attracts people because it provides an "explanation" to things people can't understand or come to terms with. In a sense religion is a very convenient thing that rationalizes the unknown and provides an answer to your struggles. When everything seems to fall short on your end and you've done all you can praying is that last straw you can use to hold on to your beliefs. People don't like to change. They would rather turn and look to god then to acknowledge that they were wrong or something that did not work for them.

There are a lot of good values in religion. I have nothing against it. I also think there is a fine line between adhering to it's values and using it as a convenient tool to bullshit your self and others.

 

[ianb]

I think religion also offers hope to some people that there is something better besides providing guidance in every day life. Something to aspire to.

It's different for everyone so it's hard to explain

It would seem strange then to see that murder and violent crime rates per capita are higher in more religious countries, but that is exactly what is seen. Not a causation per se but a definite correlation.

 

[ianb]

What happens to your trees when you stop applying inseticides when necessary, or you refuse to apply fertilizer? This is what happens when you toss God out of your existence. Things just start to decline and eventually they die.

Please show us the reputable peer reviewed studies that back up your claim. Or is it just more "common sense"?

 

[Cadillactaste]

You can believe that take on the issue but stop and think about it as if you were a politician: I want people to think I am in favor of gun ownership but they have to do one thing, apply for a permit and wait till me/we decide they are qualified for the permit. In the end it is the system that decides who can and who cannot have a gun and of course no one will qualify.

From not being allowed guns...this is still a good process. This is a different world...from what we live. So...you have to consider all factors. No...I think they got tired of their being victims of crime. At some point...you have to fight back. I see no fault...in allowing them protection. Even if it's getting a permit. We have no idea what steps are involved to get one. So we can't really say there is a wait. It maybe just proving who you are...and your desire to have one for protection. I didn't get into the process...so to debate that...is a waist of time. Because I don't know the specifics.

 

[Vance Wood]

Please show us the reputable peer reviewed studies that back up your claim. Or is it just more "common sense"?

All you have to do is look at what is happening here in America since they took prayer out of school. I was a kid then and that was prior to Viet Nam. I can't post studies because I don't take time studying this crap. But I do observe and make my own judgements. It seems you don't justify anything unless some other like minded jerk off confirms it. I worked for a guy one time that made the observation: Figures don't lie but liars can figure.

 

[wrcmad]

I worked for a guy one time that made the observation: Figures don't lie but liars can figure.

Unless, of course.... those figures suggest gun control works.

 

[wrcmad]

You know you guys from Australia-----how about justifying your existance on this forum by posting some pictures of bonsai you have or have created, if you can't does that mean you don't have any? If that's the case what are you doing here, acting like Trolls?

Oh, dear. That post gave me utmost satisfaction.
Such a stereotype of forum debate dummy-spits:

Doesn't agree with you ... and has evidence to back up his belief ... label him a troll as a means to try and discredit his point of view.
Then, as a diversionary distraction from the issue at hand .... create a totally unrelated pissing contest.

 

[ianb]

All you have to do is look at what is happening here in America since they took prayer out of school. I was a kid then and that was prior to Viet Nam. I can't post studies because I don't take time studying this crap. But I do observe and make my own judgements. It seems you don't justify anything unless some other like minded jerk off confirms it. I worked for a guy one time that made the observation: Figures don't lie but liars can figure.

Strange then that the graph Bnut posted on page 14 shows homicide rates now at around the same levels as in the 1950s.

Maybe you should research a little before spouting off then as it can make people look stupid. Like I said before I am very data oriented but if you can show me compelling evidence to the contrary I am open minded enough to reconsider my position. It seems you are not, it must be comforting to live in your black and white world.

So rather than look at a properly conducted study, or even offer any evidence, you go with some guy said, gotcha, hope you never get jury duty.

 

[63pmp]

You do not have to believe in God to Be Good

The Declaration of Independence states: We find these truths to be self evident that man is endowed by his creator with certain unalienable rights among which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; or words to that effect. That sounds like the entire reason we went to war with Great Briton was because we did not want the British telling us how we had to worship God.

The first bit about god self copulating was a bit much. But its true you dont have to believe in a god (any one) to be good. And I thought america went to war against briton for excessive taxes that were levied against the colonies.

Seeing how your declaration of independence was written in an age of supreme belief in the supreme being, just about every document from that era called upon the all mighty in one form or another , its just how they spoke and wrote. But times have changed and we recognise that the Constitution can be changed, without help from a diety, when it no longer serves the good of the populace. Like all great works of art, declarations, laws, books etc, it was made by humans, not by gods.