Let Nature do it - Seeds I’ve failed with before

[Haines' Trees]

Hey all!

So I’ve got two species of tree that I’ve epically failed to grow from seed in the past. One is Bald Cypress (T distichum) and Japanese Flowering Cherry (P serrulata). I’ve never once even gotten a see to root of bald cypress and only 3 individuals of the cherry ever, and out of many attempts for both.

This year I threw some in some trays and exposed them to the elements. Mother Nature does this on her own, so it’ll probably be better than my crappy attempts in the fridge, right?


On the left are the cherries, I got lucky and found a good quantity online and sewer about half in this tray in mid December (recommended 90 day cold stratification). The cypress are in the tray on the right in a much more organic mixture (not entirely). They’ve been exposed to the elements right there since October.

Hoping for better luck with both of these this season!

 

[leatherback]

Hoping for better luck with both of these this season!

fingers crossed for 100% germination. Have you done any scarification on the cherrieseeds?

 

[penumbra]

Watch for squirrels and birds. If they're not covered they may get to them. They do here.

 

[Haines' Trees]

Have you done any scarification on the cherrieseeds?

@leatherback i did not! Shame on me perhaps for not doing proper digging for information. I’ve never scarified my cherries before, perhaps that’s part of my issue. Is the accepted approach just a nice scratch with a knife? I know some people prefer sandpaper with certain species.

 

[Haines' Trees]

Watch for squirrels and birds. If they're not covered they may get to them. They do here.

Come warmer weather they’ll be covered, once the animals start going crazy. Fortunately between the dog and the hawk most small critters keep away from my yard.

 

[penumbra]

Come warmer weather they’ll be covered, once the animals start going crazy. Fortunately between the dog and the hawk most small critters keep away from my yard.

A dog is a good deterrent. Just mentioned it because I have already lost a few pots of crab apple seeds to squirrels.

 

[Shibui]

Mice are the biggest seed predators here and they mostly feed at night when the dog is having time off. I would definitely protect the trays.

I have had good germination of BC without any stratification but I've also had failures the last few attempts with seed from a different source so maybe some seed is not fertile. That seed is from a lone tree and probably not in ideal location so maybe that affects seed quality?

Cherry seed germinates freely in the garden beds here so I don't have to sow. Some of it has probably been through a bird so has had natural acid scarification which may make some difference to germination rates.

 

[leatherback]

@leatherback i did not! Shame on me perhaps for not doing proper digging for information. I’ve never scarified my cherries before, perhaps that’s part of my issue. Is the accepted approach just a nice scratch with a knife? I know some people prefer sandpaper with certain species.

I am not sure. I just remember that I did a dig around once when I realized that although my wife and I send loads of cherry seeds in our garden beds, we have only twice seen seedlings. Tha is when searched around and came across the random article indicatng that the seed shell contains some inhibitor which breaks down in digestive tracts of e.g. birds. Do not know whether it is for all cherry species but might be worth doing some internet digging.

 

[Haines' Trees]

@leatherback with my remaining cherries I’ll scarify in various ways and keep track of the results. Maybe we can get some good info outta this

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

For seed I have used Anderson flats, and I cut sheets of 1/4 inch hardware cloth. Tied the cloth down with wire so a squirrel could not lift an edge to dig seed. 3 ties on each side. Seed sprouts up through the mesh. You can lift the screen in autumn after leaf drop. Or anytime with pines, once the new seedlings are sturdy enough.

For nuts, like chestnuts, oak acorns, kernels from plum, and other fruit that are "highly prized" by squirrels, especially if germination was not 100%, the screen must stay in place 2 growing seasons or the bastards will dig and scatter everything looking for the ungerminated nuts.

Or build a big rodent proof cage, you can keep your shohin trees in there too.

 

[Crazy Diamond]

For seeds with a hard shell like Prunus you can break them carefuly to release the seed, this photos are olive seeds that I extracted from the shell, Ive done the same with Prunus

 

[Haines' Trees]

Hmm alright I have some things to try then! @Arnold do you recommend cracking the nut first, then stratification? Or does cracking the nut make stratification unnecessary?

 

[Crazy Diamond]

Yes, better stratification first and then sowing even without the hard "shell"

 

[Haines' Trees]

So I’ve finally gotten around to getting a set of cherry seeds going! Caught the Rona and was on my a$$ for a week, but on the upswing now!

100 seeds per method, 5 methods to try. Afterwards they’ll soak in water for 24 hours before going into cold stratification in the fridge for 90 days.
1) Control - no scarification
2) Scratch - mark a small “X” on the nutshell
3) Sanded - lightly sanded by hand w/ 120 grit
4) Shelled (pre soak) - cut the shell off prior to soak
5) Shelled (post soak) - cut off shell after soak

Let’s see if some methods help more than others!

 

[leatherback]

3) Sanded - lightly sanded by hand w/ 120 grit

I can be mistaken, but the idea how I understood it, is to sand untill you get through the skin, creating a slight opening?

 

[Haines' Trees]

I haven’t started soaking them yet… I can sand thru a bit more before I do

 

[Haines' Trees]

Man, what a nightmare of a task

Seeds are now soaking for the evening. Honestly the sanding was the worst part, and it would’ve gone a lot faster if I had an easier way to grab and hold on to the tiny devils. I used a hand clamp to keep hold and it worked okay. Any ideas to improve in the future would be entertained.

You can see where the protective shell stops and the next layer begins. I varied how deeply I went in throughout the batch. Some taking maybe just the first millimeter off where you can barely the change in layer and others went deeper like this one.

Shelling them was a bit easier. Just used some old wire cutters. I started by trying to extract the fleshy nugget of life from the shell completely but I ended up destroying a few pretty quick, so I settled for just getting a crack into the outer shell to expose the embryo to the environment. Tougher to tell if the embryo is intact in there but I figure the percentage is better than me wrestling them out. Time will tell!

Fun fact: of the seeds I shelled, only 1 of the 100 was hollow.

 

[Haines' Trees]

Last night I took some more cherries and repeated the treatments I did before. Each bag has between 120 and 125 seeds in it. Bigger samples for better data!

 

[Flowerhouse]

Man, what a nightmare of a task
Any ideas to improve in the future would be entertained.

better data!

I applaud your commitment to this project. A batch labeled "fed through chickens" would be a great addition, as would "fed through turkeys." You know, just for the sake of science. Not at all because chickens are wonderful entertainment and turkeys are sweet creatures.

 

[Haines' Trees]

Thank you sir! I was a science major in college so that is probably where the experimentation mindset comes from.

That being said, I did not measure the amount of peat or water I put into each bag. I do that very much “by feel” so I guess this will all have to be taken with that grain of salt.

Little chicken bastards… I have 5 hens that I keep for eggs and they are little dinosaurs, man! Also, I’m not feed those ugly things the last of my cherry seeds because I spent 2+ years looking for some.