Lets go collect an Elm!

[M. Frary]

First off the tree as it sits in the ground. Not sure of species cause there are Siberian and American elms in close proximity. Maybe a love child from both. A Simerican elm maybe?
Whatever kind it is it has no idea what is about to happen to it next. I imagine if it did it would try to hide. I know I surely would.

 

[M. Frary]

Before we get down and dirty here are the tools we'll be using today. One saw is for cutting trunks the other roots. The other thing is a shovel. There's one more tool not pictured. Me. I meant my muscles. I'm not a tool.

 

[M. Frary]

Here's what came next. Youch!
The stump is approximately 4" in diameter. I say that because I didn't use a tape measure I cut it approximately 8" tall because once again no tape measure. No exact science here. Just flying by the seat of my pants.
You want to cut it while its still in the ground so you don't disturb the roots too much. Because what comes next is going to be disturbing enough. For the roots that is.
I'm already disturbed.

 

[M. Frary]

I would show you the actual digging but I would need a 12' arm growing out my back. If I had one of those I would be an attraction in a sideshow somewhere.
After the digging and swearing and sawing this is what we've got. You can see just how big the taproot is on these. Fat!
What's cool is all of the little feeder roots. Sometimes we don't get that many. Being an Elm this will be plenty. Or should be.

 

[M. Frary]

I almost forgot.
This what we'll be using to plant our elm stump in. Napa floor dry and turkey grit.
80% floor dry
20% grit
Collander orange colored.
Pretty cool looking huh?
Water in real good. I mean real good. You need to make sure because you don't need dry spots down in your soil.
Now I just sit it on a bench and wait for the magic to happen.

 

[edprocoat]

Mike, so that type of Elm is one of the types of trees you can cut off all foliage and will still resprout? I know some trees suffer die back from the cut point while others just die if there is no growth (buds/leaves) to get them going.

ed

 

[M. Frary]

Yep. So far I've chopped American, Siberian and Chinese elms like this and they have all sprouted out of the cut. As far as I know almost all decidious species can take this treatment. I've only done it to elms and hornbeams though so I'm no expert by any means. I'm hoping maple can be chopped like this too because I'm going to buy a grafted one layer the top tree off and still be able to use the root stock also. 2 trees in one you might say.

 

[klosi]

OK, I'm completly new to bonsai and please bare this in mind when answering my question, but What The F is this?
I mean will out of this grow something? I'm not even good with all the trees busissnes and I'm still learning, so please tell me what will come of this?
How will this become a bonsai? What time will you have to wait? Can you maybe show me some picture of similar or the same process that you did few years ago and what the result is now?
I would really appreciate it.

I always thought yamadori hunting is collecting small trees, that you just dig out and then work from there. Why is this process so different? (Is it because you don't have to wait for trunk to get so thick?)

Man I am intreeged. And I saw this kind of process on other threads, but I really don't even know how to start asking questions. Sorry for it had to be your thread and I hope I did not destroy it with my (ignorant) beginner reply.

If you don't want to bother answering me no hard feelings, just ignore the post.

Otherwise thanks!

 

[bonsaiBlake]

OK, I'm completly new to bonsai and please bare this in mind when answering my question, but What The F is this?
I mean will out of this grow something? I'm not even good with all the trees busissnes and I'm still learning, so please tell me what will come of this?
How will this become a bonsai? What time will you have to wait? Can you maybe show me some picture of similar or the same process that you did few years ago and what the result is now?
I would really appreciate it.

I always thought yamadori hunting is collecting small trees, that you just dig out and then work from there. Why is this process so different? (Is it because you don't have to wait for trunk to get so thick?)

Man I am intreeged. And I saw this kind of process on other threads, but I really don't even know how to start asking questions. Sorry for it had to be your thread and I hope I did not destroy it with my (ignorant) beginner reply.

If you don't want to bother answering me no hard feelings, just ignore the post.

Otherwise thanks!

Hey there im pretty new to the bonsai world as well. I would reccomend doing a search for this site on "trunk chop" there is a wealth of knowledge on this site, and a ton of really cool people who are willing to help you along the way. Use the search bar on this site u can find pretty much anything about every kind of potential bonsai out there.

Good growing and welcome

Blake

 

[M. Frary]

OK, I'm completly new to bonsai and please bare this in mind when answering my question, but What The F is this?
I mean will out of this grow something? I'm not even good with all the trees busissnes and I'm still learning, so please tell me what will come of this?
How will this become a bonsai? What time will you have to wait? Can you maybe show me some picture of similar or the same process that you did few years ago and what the result is now?
I would really appreciate it.

I always thought yamadori hunting is collecting small trees, that you just dig out and then work from there. Why is this process so different? (Is it because you don't have to wait for trunk to get so thick?)

Man I am intreeged. And I saw this kind of process on other threads, but I really don't even know how to start asking questions. Sorry for it had to be your thread and I hope I did not destroy it with my (ignorant) beginner reply.

If you don't want to bother answering me no hard feelings, just ignore the post.

Otherwise thanks!

Good question. I would never ignore a question directed to me or one of my threads. That's what we're here for.
To answer your questions. Yes some yamadori is naturally stunted somehow by nature. But most will need work and special aftercare. It's kind of really hard to find a tree in nature that you can put in a bonsai pot.
So to answer your other question.
What I'm doing here is taking a larger tree and cutting it back into a bonsai. I don't consider this yamadori by any means. Even though it was growing wild I would call this more like field grown. Any way. Yes it will hopefully sprought out new growth at the cut. This being an elm it will probably bud out everywhere. Then I pick a growing bud for the tree to grow the next section of trunk. Next year that new leader gets cut back hard again. Then just repeat this a few times till I reach my desired height and from there develop an apex and branches. It should take from 7 to 10 years to get to a nice tree. This being an elm and grows fast probably nearer the 7 year mark. Barring setbacks(mainly blunders)

 

[klosi]

Ok I see. Thank you for your explanation. I try to imagine what this process would look like with pictures or step by step process. If anyone has a link or set of pictures that would show me thise seven year process I would love that.
I searched the trunk chop and I'm invastigating this process a bit further now, so I hope I will get the idea how to do it good and why.
Thanks for your reply.
Also I imagine that WHEN to is very important with field trees (as well as yamadori and anything in bonsai world for that matter...). So when? As soon as the spring to starts and the tree gets into "new growth" mode?

Good luck with your bonsai-to-be trunk.
Also if you have any bonsais that were made this way and are now nearly (they never are) complete please share the picture, if you don't like to make it public you can send a PM with a link.
Thank you!

Regards

 

[M. Frary]

I'll take a picture of one that was collected and chopped last year.
Timing is important for this procedure. You're right. I've found with elms and hornbeams as soon as the frost is out of the ground they can be collected. Some say to wait till the tree starts to swell at the buds . I'm not worrying cause I've done this before.
I worked at a tree farm for 3 years so I am comfortable with finding a tree and just digging it up. What is recommended is to locate the tree or shrub you want and trench around it the year before to cut roots to force the tree to grow more roots closer to the trunk. Which in turn gives you a better chance of survival after collection.
One other thing. You cannot cut a pine,fir,juniper,hinoki cypress past green or you kill it. That means you need to look for branches close to the ground that are green and leave them for future branches and apex.
Collecting trees is an easy way to get stock to work on but like everything in this hobby there is a lot of hurry and wait. Hurry to get it out of the ground before it's too late then wait for it to grow.

 

[M. Frary]

I should add that previously that a true yamadori(a tree naturally stunted by nature to be used for bonsai) are rare but if you keep your eyes open you might find one.
Like my little Eastern White Pine here. I spied it on a power line right of way that was slated to be mowed. The only thing I did with this tree was dig and pot.

 

[coh]

Here's a link to a 2 page article that shows how the process works...the chops can be repeated to produce however many trunk segments are desired.

http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATdevelopingtrunksforbonsai.htm

Another from same author:

http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATDeciduousBonsaiBranchStructure.html

Another (scroll down about halfway)

http://www.bonsaiexperience.com/BonsaiStyle2.html

 

[klosi]

Thank you both.
I read some of the articles and I will read the rest soon. I just have never heard of this process and I must say it intrigues me at the very least. Athough I don't have enough space to afford this kind of procedures, and unfortunately I am also to late, here in my country most of trees started to grow a month or so ago, due to warm start of spring.

Maybe next year

Good luck with the project.

Oh I almost forgot, any pictures of what should be the end product. Or even better do you have any bonsais you started this way and are now more bonsai looking?

Thank you!

 

[M. Frary]

Here's the picture of one chopped last year. It did grow taller but the deer gave me some help this winter. It will get chopped back to about 3" tall and let grow out this season and then choppy choppy again.

 

[klosi]

Thanks for the pic. I must say I understand even less now
This last one you did not chop the same way as the recent elm right?

Or did this new leader on the right side grow in one year??

 

[Dan W.]

Klosi,

This may be the best thread on B-nut showing a history of a collected deciduous tree going from chop and collection to the present. Look all the way through to the end. It's quite the progression! Rather than choosing to only allow one leader to grow, Brian chose to use several, which can give a very natural feel to the tree. Enjoy: http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?5761-Collected-Hawthorn-History

 

[M. Frary]

Thanks for the pic. I must say I understand even less now
This last one you did not chop the same way as the recent elm right?

Or did this new leader on the right side grow in one year??

Yep the leader is 1 years growth and it was taller before the deer got to it. If I wanted to go broom style I would let 3 to 5 grow out.

 

[klosi]

Aha, I thought it would grow smaller. In just one year that much. Nice.
So you will chop it again and again till the transition is unnoticeable?
Thank you for the link Dan.