Life Expectancy

[Gene Deci]

In a recent thread on the weeping style, GrimLore brought up an interesting point. Should the longevity of a species be a consideration in its suitability for bonsai? I have had occasion to ask a number of bonsai professionals a related question over the last few years: “Does life in a bonsai pot shorten, lengthen or have no effect on the longevity of a tree?”

The answers I have received make it clear that there is no consensus even among professionals. One told me that pruning, especially root pruning, is a rejuvenating process and a well cared for tree in a pot could live indefinitely. Another told me that growing in a pot is stressful not to mention all the things we do to our trees and all that must certainly shorten their lives.

One said “I don’t know.”

Does anyone on this site have any insight for us?

 

[GrimLore]

WoW! Great question Sir - My first and foremost opinion is it depends on the owner of the plant and a few other factors. As far as "other factors" go I normally advise people starting on a few different considerations.
1) Time - do you have the time to properly grow said specimen as well as others
2) Money - based on your decision(s) can you realistically make it all happen
3) Research = make an effort to research EVERY plant you consider and have a realistic idea what you can do based on your lifestyle.

Time = can you water as needed depending mainly on substrate used? Even when on vacation?
Money = can you afford a unified substrate system, fertilizer, auto water, and wintering?
Research = do you get "stock" because you like it or can you adapt it to your pre-mentioned system(s)

Going in I would hope anyone well into would steer new persons to those basic thoughts on this wonderful "Lifestyle" I personally do not think it can be a "hobby" and that every choice you make reflects you and the quality of your plants.

It is Humble but my personal opinion. There is a Lot more but I feel if you cannot wrap your head around what I previously stated - continue to garden *sigh*

Grimmy

Note: To answer your question I think we understand one must take a best and worst case scenario and balance that with every individuals expertise and understanding coupled with ability(opinion). Plants "Do not read Books"... *smiles*

 

[ABCarve]

Should the longevity of a species be a consideration in its suitability for bonsai?

A tree or plant's life span doesn't matter for me. I can't keep from pruning anything I own. I enjoy them and what else do you need.

“Does life in a bonsai pot shorten, lengthen or have no effect on the longevity of a tree?”

Does this mean that proper care is a given?

 

[JudyB]

reverse it...

Hmmm, wonder what effect bonsai has on OUR lifespans...

 

[lordy]

WoW! Great question Sir - My first and foremost opinion is it depends on the owner of the plant and a few other factors. As far as "other factors" go I normally advise people starting on a few different considerations.
1) Time - do you have the time to properly grow said specimen as well as others
2) Money - based on your decision(s) can you realistically make it all happen
3) Research = make an effort to research EVERY plant you consider and have a realistic idea what you can do based on your lifestyle.

Time = can you water as needed depending mainly on substrate used? Even when on vacation?
Money = can you afford a unified substrate system, fertilizer, auto water, and wintering?
Research = do you get "stock" because you like it or can you adapt it to your pre-mentioned system(s)

Going in I would hope anyone well into would steer new persons to those basic thoughts on this wonderful "Lifestyle" I personally do not think it can be a "hobby" and that every choice you make reflects you and the quality of your plants.

It is Humble but my personal opinion. There is a Lot more but I feel if you cannot wrap your head around what I previously stated - continue to garden *sigh*

Grimmy

Note: To answer your question I think we understand one must take a best and worst case scenario and balance that with every individuals expertise and understanding coupled with ability(opinion). Plants "Do not read Books"... *smiles*

1. who cares
2. doesnt matter
3. never do it.

 

[dick benbow]

One of the short lived natives around here is the alpine fir. less than 50 years when brought down from the mountains. Still, one of the nicest bonsai's ever is a friends chuhin sized alpine fir. beautiful. I'd have it in a second if possible...to enjoy for however long

 

[cmeg1]

I recently found out that my "ojishi' Japanese maple has a life expectancy of 60 years.I thought that was rather short for a tree.I separated a layer from it today,fingers crossed.

 

[Gene Deci]

Does this mean that proper care is a given?

For sure we are assuming the tree is properly cared for.

 

[drew33998]

I am a believer that if a tree is given a perfect environment it can live indefinitely. Examples are some of the thousand year old trees you can see if you google them. I know I am going to be criticized by some saying that the current living portion of the tree isn't that old rather a branch that has ground layered. However the tree has found a way to continue their life, be it by ground layering branches.

 

[tmmason10]

Trees in my garden seem to have a short life expectancy. I'm working on that though.

 

[jkd2572]

The oak in my front yard has a base that is about 8 feet wide. It's about 70 feet tall. I would guess the age is about 58 years old planted in the worst clay based soil you can think of. I'm pretty sure if you could see the roots my house looks like a tree house. I think there are too many variables to even make an educated guess.

 

[Dan W.]

The oldest trees in my area are the ones with restricted roots/resources. Trees growing in the open ground seem to reach a certain point and then begin dying back, where as trees in rock pockets grow so slowly that they just keep on going. I'm of the opinion that bonsai (if kept properly) can far outlive their relatives in open ground.

I've also read about old failing ume's in Japan being grafted with new roots to restore vigor. I wish I could remember where I read this. But it might work to prolong the lives of shorter lived species...?

 

[Cadillactaste]

WoW! Great question Sir - My first and foremost opinion is it depends on the owner of the plant and a few other factors. As far as "other factors" go I normally advise people starting on a few different considerations.
1) Time - do you have the time to properly grow said specimen as well as others
2) Money - based on your decision(s) can you realistically make it all happen
3) Research = make an effort to research EVERY plant you consider and have a realistic idea what you can do based on your lifestyle.

Time = can you water as needed depending mainly on substrate used? Even when on vacation?
Money = can you afford a unified substrate system, fertilizer, auto water, and wintering?
Research = do you get "stock" because you like it or can you adapt it to your pre-mentioned system(s)

Going in I would hope anyone well into would steer new persons to those basic thoughts on this wonderful "Lifestyle" I personally do not think it can be a "hobby" and that every choice you make reflects you and the quality of your plants.

It is Humble but my personal opinion. There is a Lot more but I feel if you cannot wrap your head around what I previously stated - continue to garden *sigh*

Grimmy

Note: To answer your question I think we understand one must take a best and worst case scenario and balance that with every individuals expertise and understanding coupled with ability(opinion). Plants "Do not read Books"... *smiles*

Wow! You makes some amazing points...I must say...the comments you stated...is what I always say ones should do before choosing a pet...do your research...agree your willing and able to give the said animal the care it needs...never thought that in a bonsai...but as I learn more I understand it is far more complicated than just giving it water and fertilizer. It also bummed me out. I had no idea that purple plums had such a short life span. we planted one when our first child was born...he is 16 yrs old...and it says they live to be 20 years old. We plan on having it professionally pruned this fall/winter once it drops all its leaves. The gentleman was referred to us by a landscaper. We have had it pruned one other time...but it needs a good 5 foot taken off. But it's branches being removed...would also then run on that same life cycle then. It sprouts suckers...surprisingly with the same leaf color since I am pretty certain it is grafted...we remove them. Because that is what I read in a magazine to do. But am curious...if I may want to try and raise a sucker starting. Would it run on a separate life cycle then?(something I plan on researching now) No longer even considering attempting to do anything with the cuttings once it is pruned. Because it is at the end of its life cycle. By the time one got anything remotely looking bonsai it would then die off. If I am understanding this. I also...am leaning toward more native bonsai trees in the future. Because I have to many plants in my sunroom to have space for more bonsai. I did look and had the room for the bougainvillea. But...am seeing a definite draw back from rooting...and thinking one really needs to know life cycles...and to decide if maybe a nursery young tree is a better option.

I did how ever contemplate vacationing/missionary work. And know that I can take my bonsai to a nursery that raises bonsai an hour from us to be cared for. He even will care for the bonsai in shaping and such if one is afraid to do it. And just appreciates looking at one. He also makes house calls.

 

[brewmeister83]

I am a believer that if a tree is given a perfect environment it can live indefinitely.

Biologically speaking, nothing can live indeffinately due to the basic fact that all organisms have a built in biological decay clock (sorry, can't remember the exact term) that once it hits midnight, the magic's over even if you're a tree. Sure, evergreens generally tend to live longer which is why we still have 500 year old bonsai, but the truth of the matter is they may only have another 500 left and then that's it. This post made me remember this page:
http://bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATHowLongCanTreesLive.html

Also, I remember reading that plants produced through cuttings and layering tend to mature quicker than the parent plant, I wonder if this accelerated growth/life is the reason why some modern maple cultivars only live 50-60 years instead of the close to 200 they do in the wild.

As far as how I feel this pertains to bonsai... I guess it depends on your goals. If you're just concerned about your own enjoyment, then a shorter lived broadleaf tree may be what you want. Conversely, if you want to create a "legacy" that's passed down from one generation to the next, then maybe a conifer that can live 1500+ is the tree for you.

 

[jk_lewis]

Assuming proper care, all of my trees will live longer than I will (or have). Beyond that, I don't care.

 

[Gene Deci]

I think there are too many variables to even make an educated guess.

I suspect that is right but I was hoping someone might have some insight that at least sounded compelling.

 

[Anthony]

The idea is that trees under Bonsai care, will out live their brethren in nature.

The Texas ebony here was given with the understanding that they live for 60 years ?

The Casuarina [ equisetifolia ] lives only 50 or so years.

However, they can be enjoyed. Isn't that enough ?
Good Day
Anthony [ on holidays ]

 

[GrimLore]

I suspect that is right but I was hoping someone might have some insight that at least sounded compelling.

Seems to be all opinion as you say. I however am convinced it is 90 percent the grower and 10 percent nature. I do not know of any Organization that does record keeping so for the most part I depend on what I can find on a plant and "speculate on an average". Also I find the Cooperative Extensions to be helpful many times as they are local to the area.

Grimmy

Note: I read this in another discussion " there's no record of trees that die of old age. So there is no "natural" life span that can be recorded."

 

[Dav4]

Biologically speaking, nothing can live indeffinately due to the basic fact that all organisms have a built in biological decay clock (sorry, can't remember the exact term) that once it hits midnight, the magic's over .

Apoptosis.....http://www.merriam-webster.com/medical/apoptosis

Fwiw, my understanding in regards to trees under bonsai horticultural practices is that the relatively frequent pruning of the roots and canopy basically renews or rejuvenates the tree, thus resulting in a scenario where older trees may actually "act" younger then their unbonsai'd brethren and be likely to have longer lives...this is assuming the caretakers through the years know what they're doing.

 

[JudyB]

Fwiw, my understanding in regards to trees under bonsai horticultural practices is that the relatively frequent pruning of the roots and canopy basically renews or rejuvenates the tree, thus resulting in a scenario where older trees may actually "act" younger then their unbonsai'd brethren and be likely to have longer lives...this is assuming the caretakers through the years know what they're doing.

In which case -statistically speaking they have shorter lives.
But theoretically could have longer lives.