Little florida elm

Jay Wilson

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I guess it's time to post some more trees.

Here is a florida elm I'm working on. The first picture was taken a few days after trimming and defoilating
about three weeks ago. Second pic is about ten days later. Third one is from yesterday.

I've been pinching every day and I'm pleased with the way it's ramifying and the leaves are reducing. I think, that by fall, it will have a fairly dense canopy.

I wonder about the first branch on the left..... It started as a sacrifice branch to thicken the trunk but I have kind of grown to like it and it think it works as it is. The bad thing about it is that it comes from the trunk directly below the next branch up on that side and it's very obvious when seen from other angles.

The tree is 10 inches tall from the soil.

I'm open to any opinions or suggestions. (I'm also looking for pot ideas)

Thanks,

Jay
 

John Hill

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Jay,
Nice as always! I would maybe lose one of the branches on the left in the future, but I really like this tree Jay. Nice job!

A Friend in bonsai
John
 
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Graydon

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Sweet. I like it Jay. I have differing opinions on the branch in question. I would like it more if it had a bit more movement in it, seems pretty strait to the point where it ramifies when it is bare. Looking at it in leaf softens that a bit so... I don't know. I would love to see the tree in person and spin it a few times. Nice work!

Miss seeing you around Jay. Hope to catch you soon.

Oh - a pot for this tree. Yes, that would be a good idea.
 

Martin Sweeney

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Jay,
Very natural elm, reminds me of some of the larger winged elms around here. Without seeing the tree in person, I cannot recommend any changes other than trying to get back budding on the lowest left branch to hide the scar and the straightness of the branch. Also, maybe trying to get some thinkness differentiation between the branches. They seem a little too similar.

I do not have a picture of a pot, but I think something in a subtle glaze, maybe one that compliments any fall color the tree gives you. Also, a pot the gives a feeling of the landscape. I get the image of a tree in an open area, so wide and oval and shallow.

Hope that makes sense. Keep doing what you are doing, it is working!

Thanks for posting a new thread!

Martin
 
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Verty nice elm. below is a pot from John Pitt and then one from Sara Rayner. I think the Rayner pot accents the trunk quite well.


Nice work,


Will
 
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anttal63

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nice tree jay it works. in future if it were mine i would make the higher of the left branches, the new leader, fill it out and get rid of the straighter original trunk. the lower left branch in time with back budding, some directional pruning and growing out can have alot more interest.
 

irene_b

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Now see I like it just as it is!:cool:
Drop the rules on it.
The Left Branches give a lot of character to the whole tree and the scar is a badge of age.
Irene
 

Fred-4-u

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I love this tree.
Only the lower right branch in the back is distracting me.
All other branches are growing up, this one down...

I would replace it.
 

Jay Wilson

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Thanks everyone for your kind comments.

I think it's a nice little tree, but I see a lot of things that need work. It's a long way from being "finished".

John,
I've been looking at those two branches for a while and I think the back one is a little wrong because it comes from the trunk just a little too high and makes that area look somewhat cluttered. I'm slow to cut branches though so I'll keep on looking at it for a while longer. Thanks for your kind words.


Graydon,
Thanks for your input. I hadn't noticed how straight that branch looked 'till you and Martin commented on it. I guess it has more movement when seen in person. I have to agree that some more movement would improve the image. I thought I was through with major wireing but I guess not. I'll try to get some back budding farther back also.... a couple of branchlets along there would help.


Martin,
I'm glad you see this as a natural looking tree. That's what I'm trying to achive with most of my trees.
I'm working on thickening the left branch. The fresh pruning cut out where the ramification starts is from one of several branches I let grow wild for a while and cut off when I trimmed it up. The branch is about twice the size now than it was in the spring.
I'll let some more grow long for the rest of the year to get some more thickness.
You made a lot of sense. Thanks for your thoughts on a pot also.


Will,
Thanks for the comment and thanks for taking the time to make these virtuals. I think the Sara Rayner pot is a bit more suitable than the other. The color does compliment the trunk.


anttal63,
I can see where you're coming from with changing the apex and eliminating the main trunk. Right now I just can't see investing the time needed to change this. Who knows what the future will bring.
Thanks for the thoughts though....This is how we all learn to look at things from other angles and (hopefully) improve in our abilities.


Irene,
Thank you!
I like it just like it is also, but I agree that some of the suggestions offered here will make it even better.
Rules? Lets not go there!



Fred,
I appreciate your thoughts on this tree. I've given some thought to the hanging branch as well for a while. It does go against the flow of the other branches but I think it adds to the natural look as opposed to a more formal bonsai.


Thanks again everyone for your thoughts and input.... It helps me to know I'm seeing the same areas that need work.


Jay
 

John Hill

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Hi Jay,
maybe something along these lines?

A Friend in bonsai
John
 

Martin Sweeney

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John Hill,

Interesting change. Could you remove the lowest brach on the right as well?

Regards,
Martin
 

Jay Wilson

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Hey John,
Thanks for taking the time to make this virtual.
I've got to admit that it looks better in 2D with the branch removed. I also like the way you have rounded off the canopy. I'm not as pleased with the way you have filled in the foilage to fill the gap above the first left branch but two out of three isn't bad.:)
I will have to take a look at the 3D tree and see just what I can do to fill the large hole in the canopy that would result from removing that branch. The more I compare the original with your virtual, the more I like your vision. Maybe I can move the back branch a little and encourage some growth to fill the area left empty. Irreguardless of what I do, you have set me back at least another year in this trees progress.:D

Martin,
I really like the lowest right branch but would be interested in seeing how the tree would look with it gone. More food for thought.....

Jay
 

John Hill

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Jay I like this tree the way it is really. I was just playing around to see what it would look like with that branch removed. The reason I suggested removing one of them is because in the future it would probably cause a huge bulge there. I know this is 2D and that does make it easy for virtuals and removing a branch here and there to get the mind flowing, so to speak, and may not really look the same in real life. Some may not like virtuals but to me it is a valuable tool. (measure twice cut once) or is that (measure once cut twice) ;)
Anyway I hope you understand.
So I played some more tonight and removed the branch on the right as Martin suggested just to see and you could see if you liked it (I like the branch there also Jay) but I sorta like it with it removed. Removing that right branch kinda takes it from broom to natural.
This is your tree and you are the one that has to feel it. You know, no hurry, it will only get better as we age. But you also have to look to the future of this nice little tree.
Removing one branch can totally change the direction (so called style) of the tree. So IMHO if you are going for a broom I would keep that right branch and work it.
Oh I stuck it into another Sara pot I bought from Thomas J to see what it would look like. Maybe a bit to dark, you think?


A Friend in bonsai
John
 
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Jay Wilson

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I know this is 2D and that does make it easy for virtuals and removing a branch here and there to get the mind flowing, so to speak, and may not really look the same in real life. Some may not like virtuals but to me it is a valuable tool. (measure twice cut once) or is that (measure once cut twice) ;)
Anyway I hope you understand.

Hey John,
Yes, I do understand and your virtuals have caused me to take a long look at this tree.
In real life the limb you removed (on the left) is not as intrusive as it looks in 2D. I rotated the tree just a little clockwise and took another picture.....

Thanks for removing the branch on the right so I could get a feel for what it would look like with it gone. To me it's a toss-up. Either way looks good. I do like the pot also but agree its too dark.

Anyway, the tree is still a ways from being "finished" and your virts (and other folks suggestions) have helped me in my plans for the future. Thanks for your insight.
 

Martin Sweeney

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Jay,

I believe I read in another of your posts that a cow damaged many of your trees.Did this tree survive the cow, and if so, do you have any progress to report?

I am interested to hear your plans for the tree as I like what you have done to date with it.

Regards,
Martin
 

Jay Wilson

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Martin,
I was trying to reply to this post when the 'Nut crashed........


Yes, this tree was fortunatly untouched by the bull but I really don't have much progress to report.
I'll try to get a current photo this evening.
Thanks,
 

Jay Wilson

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Well, as promised, here is an update on this elm. I've tried for three afternoons to take a decent pic or two with natural lighting but the weather won't co-operate.
Here's a couple of shots taken with flash which I think does not at all do the tree justice.

I repotted a couple of weeks ago into this pot. I don't think it works very well but it's the only one I have that's even close.
I wanted to get it into a bonsai pot to help with the twigging and leaf reduction (and to get an idea how it would look).

As I look at this tree I see many areas that need improvement: Most of the branches (and even twigs) are too straight.
On some of the branches the ramification starts too far out and needs to be brought in closer.
I'd also like to see a little more break-up in the canopy line.....I don't want it to look like a helment.

So, my plan for this tree is to leave it alone except for pinching until fall (november here) then defoliate, trim back the longer branches to induce twigging farther back and to break up the canopy a little more, then wire everything that needs more movement.

I also plan to ask for help in finding a suitable pot for the spring repot.

Any thoughts or opinions are welcome.

Thanks,

PS. I threw in a couple of pics to show how much the leaves have reduced.
 

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I just noticed all the orginal pics are gone from this thread, even the virt I made...I'm afraid that is gone forver, I mean, who saves virts?



Will
 
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Well, as promised, here is an update on this elm. I've tried for three afternoons to take a decent pic or two with natural lighting but the weather won't co-operate.
Here's a couple of shots taken with flash which I think does not at all do the tree justice.

I repotted a couple of weeks ago into this pot. I don't think it works very well but it's the only one I have that's even close.
I wanted to get it into a bonsai pot to help with the twigging and leaf reduction (and to get an idea how it would look).

As I look at this tree I see many areas that need improvement: Most of the branches (and even twigs) are too straight.
On some of the branches the ramification starts too far out and needs to be brought in closer.
I'd also like to see a little more break-up in the canopy line.....I don't want it to look like a helment.

So, my plan for this tree is to leave it alone except for pinching until fall (november here) then defoliate, trim back the longer branches to induce twigging farther back and to break up the canopy a little more, then wire everything that needs more movement.

I also plan to ask for help in finding a suitable pot for the spring repot.

Any thoughts or opinions are welcome.

Thanks,

PS. I threw in a couple of pics to show how much the leaves have reduced.
I would recommend a couple of defoliations including light pruning next summer. It will drive the budding back toward the trunk and give you a good deal more ramification in a season. Why are you waiting until November to defoliate? The greatest strength of growth is during the summer season.
 
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P.S. Sorry I didn't mention it before. I really like a lot about this tree. It has a naturalness that will only be enhanced with proper care.
 
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