Live Oak seedlings - what would you do?

[greenman63]

I take a lot of pleasure from growing many of my bonsai trees from seed. I have been taking care of these Live Oak seedlings for a little over one season now, and I'm wondering if there's anything I should be considering at this early stage to get them ready for future bonsai styling/shaping. They're about 5" tall right now, and I'm keeping them in an east-facing spot where they get only morning to midday sun. Could anyone give me a little help with what my options might be? I look forward to your input!

 

[berobinson82]

In the ground on a tile and forget about them for 3 - 10 years?

 

[rockm]

The way seedlings like this are grown out for nurseries is they are planted out for a few years, then moved into gradually larger containers. There are "tree farms" in Texas, Florida and other southern states that make their living doing what bonsaiists have been doing.

http://www.blanketcreektreefarm.com/southern-live-oak-texas.htm

I'd suggest using that as a model for what you want to do with your seedlings. At this point, they have no real use for "doing" bonsai. They are raw material that needs to get some growth into them before they can be worked. I'd plant them out in the ground (if possible) and let them be for at least three years, then re-collect them, containerize them and go from there.

FWIW, I have had a live oak bonsai (quercus virginiana--a completely different species from the California live oaks) for almost 20 years. It was originally dug from the Texas hill country. The species can make excellent bonsai, but you might as well have a maple if the oak you're working on has doesn't have an hefty, aged-looking trunk--which is really what oak bonsai are all about. That can only be obtained by allowing the seedlings to grow unhindered for a few years...

 

[edprocoat]

You received some sound advice in this thread so far. I have always wanted a live oak to shape like the ones you see in fields in Florida, with the brnaches coming to the ground and all twisted from the winds.

My dad stopped driving 3 months ago due to health problems and I bought his old Ford pickup which was parked under a tree since then, it had live oak seedlings that were well over a foot tall with a load more branches growing in amongst the piles of shed leaves. I would assume the little pot is really slowing the growth of your seedlings.

P.S. theres a guy in Deland, Schley, who has some decent sized live oak trees for $150.00 bucks which I had planned to pick up before dad got ill and all that went with it and now I have run outta time.

ed

 

[subnet_rx]

Will a tile actually stop the taproot or would it eventually just work it's way around it? I've read where some actually cut the taproot on trees at a young age, would that work for live oak as well?

 

[jk_lewis]

I hope you are VERY young. What would I do at my stage in life (76)? Toss them!

 

[Zach Smith]

I take a lot of pleasure from growing many of my bonsai trees from seed. I have been taking care of these Live Oak seedlings for a little over one season now, and I'm wondering if there's anything I should be considering at this early stage to get them ready for future bonsai styling/shaping. They're about 5" tall right now, and I'm keeping them in an east-facing spot where they get only morning to midday sun. Could anyone give me a little help with what my options might be? I look forward to your input!

I don't have a lot of experience with live oak seedlings, but by coincidence I'm growing a couple dozen right now that I sprouted last year and plan to develop for eventual sale. At one year, it's really not time to do anything with your seedlings. Let them grow another year, at which time you'll need to remove the tap roots and either pot on or plant out in the ground. In either case feed heavily and give them all the water you can. Live oaks love water!

(I'm 58, and I think in 40 years I'll have some nice live oak bonsai from seed I collected in 2011.)

Good luck.

Zach

 

[0soyoung]

I take a lot of pleasure from growing many of my bonsai trees from seed. Could anyone give me a little help with what my options might be? I look forward to your input!

I too get a kick out of growing trees from seed. Japanese maples are one specie that you can take from seed to a small bonsai in 5 to 10 years. Another idea is to consider using your seedlings as an inexpensive way to experiment and learn, say like I'm doing with some cork oaks I bought. For this kind of systematic experimentation, though, you will need at least 8 seedlings of the same kind.

 

[greenman63]

Thank you for all the replies and the great advice! I should mention that I am renting the house where I live right now, and we're looking to buy sometime in the next few months, which is why so many of my projects are not in the ground but in pots. When we move, I'll probably put these oaks and several other things in the ground as well. Heck, I've even taken a mango seedling and put it in a bonsai pot until I am ready to put it in the ground later on, lol, but I have so many mango and avocado seedlings I don't know what to do with them. I'm a bit of a plant hoarder, but trying to keep it under control I sell some of these things for veterans' charities or causes as well. I have a lot of fun propagating whatever I can get my hands on.

Any way, I'll probably plant the oaks in the ground, but not till we've moved. Is it best to cut the tap root or plant them over a tile?

 

[greenman63]

I too get a kick out of growing trees from seed. Japanese maples are one specie that you can take from seed to a small bonsai in 5 to 10 years. Another idea is to consider using your seedlings as an inexpensive way to experiment and learn, say like I'm doing with some cork oaks I bought. For this kind of systematic experimentation, though, you will need at least 8 seedlings of the same kind.

Yes, I'm doing the same sort of thing by propagating as much bougainvillea as possible. I just stick a cutting into a pot and most times they begin to grow. I let them go for a while before trimming, or stick them in a sunny spot in the ground. I have one in particular I'm trying to propagate more of because of the tomato-red color on the brachts, with orange-white flowers. That one will make excellent bonsai material.

 

[milehigh_7]

In this case I would reconsider planting in the ground. Because of the way oaks are with roots I would go with a strainer/colander/pond basket. Then you won't have to worry about pruning the tap root. Maybe ground would make them grow faster but mine would put on several feet a year if I let them. My biggest one has already put about 18" in some of the new branches this year.

Root work is best done just before the buds begin to open. If done then they are pretty good about it. I normally collect seedlings by pulling them like weeds in January potting them up and giving them some bottom heat. Nearly 100% make it.

Fortunately for you, live oaks are VERY strong growers and bud back very well. Small branches are flexible and take wiring well. So when you replant in a strainer or the ground give it a better angle then let it run for a few years.

 

[coppice]

A tree on a tile is going to get dug up and turned every year or six. Re-cut the tap root then if you feel you must.

 

[milehigh_7]

Mine is not doing too badly as you can see here:

http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?4751-Quercus-virginiana

Pretty sure this has been in a nursery can its whole life until Jan. 2011 when I brought it home as a 6' tall tree and plopped it into a pond basket. At the time it had a caliper of 4.125" and now it is just a hair under 4.5"

In January of this year I removed half of the roots and it is growing stronger than ever. It will be interesting to see how the roots look next time I take it out for its next reduction.

 

[greenman63]

Mine is not doing too badly as you can see here:

http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?4751-Quercus-virginiana

Pretty sure this has been in a nursery can its whole life until Jan. 2011 when I brought it home as a 6' tall tree and plopped it into a pond basket. At the time it had a caliper of 4.125" and now it is just a hair under 4.5"

In January of this year I removed half of the roots and it is growing stronger than ever. It will be interesting to see how the roots look next time I take it out for its next reduction.

I fully expect to have to be patient with any tree I plant from seed. I like the trunk/roots on yours. I'm wondering if it's any use to put a couple twists or bends on the trunks now while they're still seedlings. I guess it's a question of what style I want to end up with, but I find myself drawn to the more gnarled, twisted looks. Still, a nice formal upright might be nice for a live oak. What's clear is that I've got a bit of time to go before I begin making final decisions on the style for this tree. Since I've got two together, I'm thinking of displaying them as a pair and styling them around that concept. I don't have much in the way of forest/multiple tree specimens. At this point I still have a lot of options.

Thanks for all the input, I'm still taking suggestions!