long term herbicide effects

[Steve Kudela]

Hey folks, haven't been on B/N much lately, I've popped in a few times. I've been kind of bummed out about an incident that occured last year in May. On May 1, on a fairly windy day, approx. 14 mph out of the north, an inconciderate farmer got out in that wind and sprayed herbicide. It was a mixture of Warrent and Grammoxone. Grammoxone is a fancy name for paraquat, a poison 1 element off from Agent Orange that some of you will remember from the Vietnam era. My entire yard and bonsai collection (125 trees plus cuttings and seedlings) The junk blew through the hedge between the north field and the bonsai. 2 trees died within a month, 5 more in the period following. I just tossed another on the dead pile 2 weeks ago. I'm continuing to have issues appear almost 2 years later. Bizarre growth, distortions in leaves, branches leafed out and died off, etc. Do we have anyone on this board who can give me some ideas past what I've already seen as to the long term effects of this stuff? One way or another, I guess I'm just going to ride it out and see how things go. Some trees are recovering, others have grown but exhibiting the strange growth patterns mentioned above. I have taken them to task over it but the insurance company is playing the jerk-around game.

 

[Salcomine]

I have a few spruce that got hit with a herbicide last year. Growth was all messed up. I found this link to be a bit helpful
https://turf.purdue.edu/tips/2011/06172011_Imprelis.html
One thing I noticed was that the herbicide remained active in the soil and would affect the grass and plants that they drained on. I put a handful of activated charcoal in the pots and mixed it around, seemed to have bound up any herbicide from coming through.

 

[Anthony]

Check for Half life and see how the decay goes.

Last year brother-in-law had a yardman next door spray a few stray Chinese bamboo with a specific
bamboo poison. Fortunately, the seller of the product gave good advice.
So K wasted 400 gallons of water every 3 days for 3 weeks, having to water down 60 feet of bamboo hedge.

Saved the hedge.

Stuff had a half life of 2 months, which means half would be gone in 2 months, then another half in another
2 months and so on.

Now the yardman runs from K when ever he sees him.

Fortunately, very fortunately, the spray did not reach the oldest bonsai bench, which was behind that section
of the hedge.
Talk about a tun tun head [ local for a-hole.]

Ask for help from the Agricultural Science folk.
You may also need to neutralize.
Good luck.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[AlainK]

"Herbicides" are for those who don't have a modicum of common sense.

What kind of planet do you want your children to live on?...

 

[Steve Kudela]

Thanks guys, I've tried charcoal, I can't say that it hasn't helped. I can't sat that it has. I don't feel that it was wasted effort to use the charcoal, it certainly can't hurt them. I've spoken with people all over the southeast about it and everyone so far, except Rodney , have been pretty much clueless. he's the one who recommended the charcoal. Have even changed soil in a number of things, to no avail. I think that the wind just drove that stuff into the trunks, I've even scrubbed some of them with a brush in an effort to get the stuff off. I think at this point, I'm just going to have to live with it and hope and pray that in time the effects will eventually go away.........Anthony, please forgive my ignorance, what do you mean by neutralize? Thanks again.................SK

 

[eferguson1974]

Sounds like a great lawsuit, so you can get more trees.
And I agree that anyone who uses those poisons is damaging the world for 100's of years. Parts of Vietnam still have no flora and wont anytime soon. Roundup is being banned in Europe and some States. Hot water kills weeds just as dead..I hate that Costa Ricans use so many chemicals to raise peppers, tomatos, coffee, bannanas and whatever. Yet I grow organic and dont have weeds mostly. The wicking beds get some but theres none in my aquaponic tunes. Just in the grow beds, but very few. I cant eat it all and without a drop of chemicals. All that crap is not needed to grow food. I prove it everyday.

 

[Carol 83]

I work for an agricultural company that does chemical spraying. Sounds like the problem was not necessarily with the chemical, but the spray applicator. We never spray when it's windy, for exactly that reason. The applicator has to record weather conditions, including wind direction and speed for every field that is sprayed. So if a claim is filed, we know the spraying conditions. But mistakes happen, sorry for the loss and damage to your trees.

 

[Nybonsai12]

Very sorry to hear this. No advice, but I do hope you lawyer up and get back some funds.

 

[eferguson1974]

I work for an agricultural company that does chemical spraying. Sounds like the problem was not necessarily with the chemical, but the spray applicator. We never spray when it's windy, for exactly that reason. The applicator has to record weather conditions, including wind direction and speed for every field that is sprayed. So if a claim is filed, we know the spraying conditions. But mistakes happen, sorry for the loss and damage to your trees.

I dont understand how people can make that shit, knowing the damage it does. Is your short term profit worth all the cáncer and birth defects and health risks they contribute to?

 

[Carol 83]

I dont understand how people can make that shit, knowing the damage it does. Is your short term profit worth all the cáncer and birth defects and health risks they contribute to?

I was just stating that when gardens, yards, etc. are damaged, it is the fault of the applicator. We have nothing to do with making any chemicals. Actually, the facility I work at is a grain elevator, and distributor of motor fuels and Lp gas, we don't handle fertilizer or chemicals. I work in accounting, so have nothing to do with the sale or application of anything. He should definitely file a claim, and be reimbursed for his loss.

 

[Steve Kudela]

thank you all for the additional comments..........it's not something that I could let go, so I have indeed lawyered up. My collection is (was) fairly valuable and they didn't want to do anything about it. Here in the south, herbicide drift had reached almost epidemic proportion according to various county and state officials that I've spoken with. No one has been dealing with it, so I don't feel like I have any choice but to pursue a proper settlement with the hope that at least this bunch of farmers will stop this stupidity. As it turns out, I'm not the only one these guys have drifted,just the worst and most expensive one. Blessedly enough, several of my better trees are bouncing back with fairly decent uneffected growth, others.........not so well. 2 trees that I've shown here are gone.........my plum and kinsai "not". The big beech leafed out normally, but then the secondary growth came out dwarfed and misshapen. Most of the junipers are recovering well even though several had branches blasted off. My large Japanese maple was just eaten up, has survived, but in really bad shape. At this point, I am praying for a mild winter like last year. If it had been colder here.........well I just really don't want to think too much about that. Anyway, thanks for the advice and good wishes.

 

[Carol 83]

I sincerely hope you win, you should absolutely be reimbursed for loss and damage. Any reputable company would do so. It is unusual here for farmers to do their own chemical application. Most don't want to hassle with tests, or commercial pesticide license, nor do they have the proper equipment. Probably a good thing they don't. Best of luck.

 

[CWTurner]

I dont understand how people can make that shit, knowing the damage it does.

They make it cause lazy people use it. It makes farming easier.
I work at Lowe's and I am horrified by the gallons and gallons of Roundup that we sell. Some people buy 3-4 gallons at a time, and these are homeowners on city lots, not farmers. I've been working the plumbing department lately and people are doing the same thing with drain cleaners. Buying it by the gallon.
I try to dissuade them when the opportunity arises, but it is very sad.
CW

 

[Wilson]

Sorry for the bad event, but I am real happy the beech survived! That is by far one of my favorite trees!

 

[Anthony]

Steve,

do as my brother-in-law did, check with the folk who actually make the stuff, and ask for help.
On this side grammoxone. is called - Indian Tonic.

Why ? Because Indians [ India ] use it to commit suicide. Often taking 3 days to die. It is how you
punish your family / friends, make them watch you die.
Recommended treatment, is charcoal.

Have yourself tested as well please.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[sorce]

What kind of planet do you want your children to live on?...

What good is 3 arms with no plants to pick!



Sorry to hear SK.

Good thing is....you live near a guy who may be able to save the world from an alien attack!



Sorce

 

[Steve Kudela]

Steve,

do as my brother-in-law did, check with the folk who actually make the stuff, and ask for help.
On this side grammoxone. is called - Indian Tonic.

Why ? Because Indians [ India ] use it to commit suicide. Often taking 3 days to die. It is how you
punish your family / friends, make them watch you die.
Recommended treatment, is charcoal.

Have yourself tested as well please.
Good Day
Anthony

Oh my gracious!!!

 

[Steve Kudela]

What good is 3 arms with no plants to pick!



Sorry to hear SK.

Good thing is....you live near a guy who may be able to save the world from an alien attack!

View attachment 121080

Sorce

Here I come to save the day!!! Thanks for the laugh,Buddy!

 

[M. Frary]

I'm a certified pesticide applicator. I had to test for every category that I apply it to. Core,right of way,ornamental and aquatic applications. Here in Michigan if you're a farmer you only need to take core,which is the basics. Because they are to only use it on their own property. I spray everything that looks like a tree on private,state and federal lands. Where ever the power lines run through. This very day I'm applying to dormant stem trees. Ones that are dropping leaves or have dropped them. This chemical is brutal.
Roundup is for girls. The stuff we use will kill a 12 foot poplar in a day. Drift is the biggest cause of concern for us. At winds 14 m.p.h. or higher I shut us down. My name goes on a sheet that goes to the Depart of Environmental Quality so if there is any off target drift they know who to fine. It's a $25000 fine and or 10 years in prison.
The farmers on the other hand can do what they want. With their license they can go and buy any pesticide commercially available. Most use Roundup because Monsanto plants are engineered to take it. That way the farmers can spray in crops to control weeds.
Pines and junipers take longer to show its working. Waxy needles but it does kill them. It may take a year. Oaks are also longer to show the effects. Like pines they look fine for a while but don't grow back. Beech being a one flush tree tales longer too. Just looked at some last week. They kind of looked O.K. but they won't be pushing any new leaves next year.
You can save a tree sometimes if you get out and hose it off within a half of an hour after application. I still wouldn't count on that either. Once the leaves suck it in and and it's traveling through the plant it's pretty much over.
It's applicators like the one you describe that makes it hard on me. People already don't like us rolling up on their trees to cut them down. And when they see the spray rigs they freak. And we can kill over 20 acres of solid brush in a day.
The rigs hold 300 gallons of chemical. 2 guys with spray guns stand back there and spray like mad. And when we're done the brush under the power lines from tree wall to tree wall is dead.

All that crap is not needed to grow food

But it works awesome on trees.

 

[Steve Kudela]

I'm a certified pesticide applicator. I had to test for every category that I apply it to. Core,right of way,ornamental and aquatic applications. Here in Michigan if you're a farmer you only need to take core,which is the basics. Because they are to only use it on their own property. I spray everything that looks like a tree on private,state and federal lands. Where ever the power lines run through. This very day I'm applying to dormant stem trees. Ones that are dropping leaves or have dropped them. This chemical is brutal.
Roundup is for girls. The stuff we use will kill a 12 foot poplar in a day. Drift is the biggest cause of concern for us. At winds 14 m.p.h. or higher I shut us down. My name goes on a sheet that goes to the Depart of Environmental Quality so if there is any off target drift they know who to fine. It's a $25000 fine and or 10 years in prison.
The farmers on the other hand can do what they want. With their license they can go and buy any pesticide commercially available. Most use Roundup because Monsanto plants are engineered to take it. That way the farmers can spray in crops to control weeds.
Pines and junipers take longer to show its working. Waxy needles but it does kill them. It may take a year. Oaks are also longer to show the effects. Like pines they look fine for a while but don't grow back. Beech being a one flush tree tales longer too. Just looked at some last week. They kind of looked O.K. but they won't be pushing any new leaves next year.
You can save a tree sometimes if you get out and hose it off within a half of an hour after application. I still wouldn't count on that either. Once the leaves suck it in and and it's traveling through the plant it's pretty much over.
It's applicators like the one you describe that makes it hard on me. People already don't like us rolling up on their trees to cut them down. And when they see the spray rigs they freak. And we can kill over 20 acres of solid brush in a day.
The rigs hold 300 gallons of chemical. 2 guys with spray guns stand back there and spray like mad. And when we're done the brush under the power lines from tree wall to tree wall is dead.

But it works awesome on trees.

Hey Mike, down here according to EPA , the farmer is licensed for handling, application, and supervision. Then he can send anyone out to spray.In this case a minimum wage tractor driver manning a huge highboy with 65 ft. booms. In terms of penalties, there are none for 1st violation, a slap on the wrist......don't let it happen again or you will be in trouble!! After they've done 10's of thousands of dollars damage to part of my life's work!!! And as always, the rest of us have to go the extra 50 miles because of these types of people...........oh well. Thanks man