long time watcher/first time bonsai-er (Jade plant) - any advice?

[general_D]

Hello

New member here - have had interest in bonsai but have never done it myself

recently I was gifted a lucky money plant (jade plant / crassula ovata) which has been well grown and well treated (inside) for about 2-3 years that I know of.
Bit of sun scorch on a few leaves.

Currently in my outside area and thriving well in UK (zone 9 of the US hardiness scale)

Seems to be a good starter for me to dip into bonsai and start making it a bonsai instead of a houseplant.

Ive ordered myself some intro books plus some basic stuff (shears, bonsai wire, potting mix, got a pot being made at the moment, havent bought any other tools at the moment) that i will need at some point. I also know jumping right in and doing too much too quick because of enthuisiasm is the sure fire way to hit big problems or kill it

my questions are in terms of advise people might have

- repotting /trimming roots - should i do this at this stage?
-trimming back growth and encouraging thickening
-timings of the above two - i understand jades to be pretty hard to kill
- wiring - i want to support some of the natural bends that are happening and start shaping it

Still waiting my materials ive picked out, so i might answer some of these soon by reading, but thought I'd reach out for tips and tricks

It seems to be three good trunks which i can work with.


Below being the main one with interesting natural bends



the trunks below




overview below


advice/ideas much appreciated as this is my first bonsai project

cheers
general_D



bonus below is an offspring from the same plant - maybe a year old now

 

[TinyArt]

Hello!

I don't know enough to offer any answers, but I can say "Welcome!" & give you a bump to the top...

The right folks will see you, sooner or later!

 

[hinmo24t]

nice. id cut all of those down by half or more and enjoy watching them come back thru summer

 

[TinyArt]

Some of this thread may be useful too --

Big Jade Plant To Bonsai

I saw this at my local nursery for 25 bucks. Can I chop it down low where the red markings are for a think stem start?

www.bonsainut.com

 

[LittleDingus]

Hi @general_D...welcome!

I've had the same ovata since my then girlfriend gifted one to me 30+ years ago!

I don't know how to tell you to turn it into a bonsai...they really aren't "bonsai" material...they aren't actually trees at all.

What I can tell you is:

1) Put the wire away. Jade...when healthy...doesn't bend...it snaps. If you can bend a jade branch, it's not getting enough light.
2) Put the tools away...well, maybe. Jade snaps pretty easily. I don't cut mine usually...I bend it until it snaps. The reason is that Jade will usually die back to an internode...the spot where leaves come out of the branch. It will never bud in the space between. If you cut the space between, the branch will die back to at least the last internode...sometimes further. If you snap the branch instead, it will tend to snap at an internode. At the very least, you haven't cut through any live cells and the healing is faster...usually fast enough it dies back to only the last internode.
3) The thing to remember is Jade is a succulent...not a tree. It doesn't have "wood". Most of the branch tissue is for storing water. As such, it doesn't "lignify" the way a tree does. Branches will go turgid or limp based on how much water the plant has stored.
4) The limp/turgid this is probably THE BEST way to determine when to water jade Pinch a leaf. If it is solid...don't water. If it is squishy...water it a little...that is, if the soil is dry.
5) Succulents rot quickly if over watered! During active growth, overwatering is less of an issue. I water mine at most once a month when it is inside for the winter. You can tell when by the look/feel of the leaves. Dull/squishy = can use some water. Shiny/solid = leave alone
6) EVERY piece you cut off will easily root! Every piece! I get new plants off mine simply by not picking out the fallen leaves often enough! I shouldn't say "every" piece...you need a leaf base of an internode. But it does not matter how small. Like I said, single leaves that have fallen off mine have turned into new plants! I would go with branches with a few bare internodes you can put under soil and a few leaves, however. It's faster
7) Keep pinching out the two leaves at the ends of the branches to fill in the plant. Do that enough, and the leaves will start to shrink in size. Give it enough sun and the internodes will shrink as well.

My wife got me mine 30+ years ago. I used to keep it small by cutting the bottom off and planting a few cuttings. Stupid idiot I should have been keeping the bottom and tossing the cuttings!

I started doing that a few years ago. I think I have about a dozen trunks these days. This is the closest to "bonsai" that I have.



I've been letting it thicken. My wife and I saw one a few years ago that had a 6" diameter trunk! I won't be able to get this one that big any time soon...but I'll let it do what it can for another season or two as it fills in some branches. Then I'll start trying to form some kind of a "canopy".

The rest of the trunks I have I just grow as house plants

 

[Forsoothe!]

OP doesn't have 3 trunks, he has 3 individuals in one pot. The extra branches from down low don't work stylistically with the current configuration. Jade doesn't fly as formal upright, so the branches forming a broom need to start higher (blue line) up to look like a "tree" instead of a shrub. The center of any clump, group, forest, etc., necessarily needs to be hollow. It's totally in shade and anything starting on the inside of the bunch will grow poorly, slowly and out or character anyway, so hollow works except close to the top of the canopy. OP needs to eliminate the yellow branches to open up the interior, and then decide whether to have a united canopy (all trees contributing to one shape) or a set of complimentary clouds where clouds can have separate units, or individual bumps that join at the seams, or a combination of the two. It's hard to see where to go from for step 2 until the low branches are removed and the whole of what's left looks like.

 

[general_D]

OP doesn't have 3 trunks, he has 3 individuals in one pot. The extra branches from down low don't work stylistically with the current configuration. Jade doesn't fly as formal upright, so the branches forming a broom need to start higher (blue line) up to look like a "tree" instead of a shrub. The center of any clump, group, forest, etc., necessarily needs to be hollow. It's totally in shade and anything starting on the inside of the bunch will grow poorly, slowly and out or character anyway, so hollow works except close to the top of the canopy. OP needs to eliminate the yellow branches to open up the interior, and then decide whether to have a united canopy (all trees contributing to one shape) or a set of complimentary clouds where clouds can have separate units, or individual bumps that join at the seams, or a combination of the two. It's hard to see where to go from for step 2 until the low branches are removed and the whole of what's left looks like.
View attachment 383903

Great advice.

So I'll clear the low lying parts and see what I've got, and go from there

 

[sorce]

I'd make Literati's out of those curvy ones!

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[general_D]

Hi @general_D...welcome!

I've had the same ovata since my then girlfriend gifted one to me 30+ years ago!

I don't know how to tell you to turn it into a bonsai...they really aren't "bonsai" material...they aren't actually trees at all.

What I can tell you is:

1) Put the wire away. Jade...when healthy...doesn't bend...it snaps. If you can bend a jade branch, it's not getting enough light.
2) Put the tools away...well, maybe. Jade snaps pretty easily. I don't cut mine usually...I bend it until it snaps. The reason is that Jade will usually die back to an internode...the spot where leaves come out of the branch. It will never bud in the space between. If you cut the space between, the branch will die back to at least the last internode...sometimes further. If you snap the branch instead, it will tend to snap at an internode. At the very least, you haven't cut through any live cells and the healing is faster...usually fast enough it dies back to only the last internode.
3) The thing to remember is Jade is a succulent...not a tree. It doesn't have "wood". Most of the branch tissue is for storing water. As such, it doesn't "lignify" the way a tree does. Branches will go turgid or limp based on how much water the plant has stored.
4) The limp/turgid this is probably THE BEST way to determine when to water jade Pinch a leaf. If it is solid...don't water. If it is squishy...water it a little...that is, if the soil is dry.
5) Succulents rot quickly if over watered! During active growth, overwatering is less of an issue. I water mine at most once a month when it is inside for the winter. You can tell when by the look/feel of the leaves. Dull/squishy = can use some water. Shiny/solid = leave alone
6) EVERY piece you cut off will easily root! Every piece! I get new plants off mine simply by not picking out the fallen leaves often enough! I shouldn't say "every" piece...you need a leaf base of an internode. But it does not matter how small. Like I said, single leaves that have fallen off mine have turned into new plants! I would go with branches with a few bare internodes you can put under soil and a few leaves, however. It's faster
7) Keep pinching out the two leaves at the ends of the branches to fill in the plant. Do that enough, and the leaves will start to shrink in size. Give it enough sun and the internodes will shrink as well.

My wife got me mine 30+ years ago. I used to keep it small by cutting the bottom off and planting a few cuttings. Stupid idiot I should have been keeping the bottom and tossing the cuttings!

I started doing that a few years ago. I think I have about a dozen trunks these days. This is the closest to "bonsai" that I have.

View attachment 383883

I've been letting it thicken. My wife and I saw one a few years ago that had a 6" diameter trunk! I won't be able to get this one that big any time soon...but I'll let it do what it can for another season or two as it fills in some branches. Then I'll start trying to form some kind of a "canopy".

The rest of the trunks I have I just grow as house plants

Really helpful - especially as I'm brand new

Good to know wiring and cutting isn't recommended for jade

 

[general_D]

I'd make Literati's out of those curvy ones!

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

Just looked that up
I like.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Welcome to the site!

Advice that is given to many people starting out - try to make your bonsai look like a tree, instead of trying to make your tree look like a bonsai. If you look at your jade plant, it is considered relatively difficult material to work with for bonsai, because of the large scale of the leaves. Not impossible - just difficult - and perhaps better suited for larger compositions where the leaves are more in scale with the larger plant.

If you like the look of your jade, and like the idea of succulents for bonsai, check out Portulacaria afra. It has a similar appearance and care requirements, with much smaller leaves.

 

[hinmo24t]

Welcome to the site!

Advice that is given to many people starting out - try to make your bonsai look like a tree, instead of trying to make your tree look like a bonsai. If you look at your jade plant, it is considered relatively difficult material to work with for bonsai, because of the large scale of the leaves. Not impossible - just difficult - and perhaps better suited for larger compositions where the leaves are more in scale with the larger plant.

If you like the look of your jade, and like the idea of succulents for bonsai, check out Portulacaria afra. It has a similar appearance and care requirements, with much smaller leaves.

View attachment 383974

reminds me of a stone lantern or statue chia pet

 

[LittleDingus]

Really helpful - especially as I'm brand new

Good to know wiring and cutting isn't recommended for jade

To be clear...cutting works, just not usually necessary. Small branches snap easy when turgid. Big ones need a little more "umph"! They tend to snap at internodes...though not always.

If you cut, the branch will almost definitely die back to at least the next internode. If the plant can't seal that internode off fast enough (cutting creates a harder to seal wound than snapping...cutting rips cells, snapping usually separates cells) it will die back further. That's why I mostly don't bother with cuts anymore...that, and I'm too lazy to find the shears

This is the kind of die back you can expect:

 

[general_D]

OP doesn't have 3 trunks, he has 3 individuals in one pot. The extra branches from down low don't work stylistically with the current configuration. Jade doesn't fly as formal upright, so the branches forming a broom need to start higher (blue line) up to look like a "tree" instead of a shrub. The center of any clump, group, forest, etc., necessarily needs to be hollow. It's totally in shade and anything starting on the inside of the bunch will grow poorly, slowly and out or character anyway, so hollow works except close to the top of the canopy. OP needs to eliminate the yellow branches to open up the interior, and then decide whether to have a united canopy (all trees contributing to one shape) or a set of complimentary clouds where clouds can have separate units, or individual bumps that join at the seams, or a combination of the two. It's hard to see where to go from for step 2 until the low branches are removed and the whole of what's left looks like.
View attachment 383903

I know you said not to wire it but experimenting

 

[Forsoothe!]

Experimenting is an important part of learning, even if it blows up in your face, so lay on, McDuff. It would also be instructive to buy/collect/steal other plants plants you can learn on, too. There are small weed trees in every landscape and pavement crack. You can collect them in an instant from wet ground after a decent rain just by grabbing them by the base of the trunk and pulling straight up, slowly. Your mistakes will be obvious right away, just drop it and find another. Otherwise, put it in a plastic bag and stick it in your pocket. I have a soft spot in my head for weeds as accents, especially nightshade family...

Although every plant has slightly different responses to training, you can always apply parts of your training of this learning, to your training of that learning. So keep a couple plastic bags in your pocket and for more serious sizes a screwdriver that you can stick in the ground and upset the soft, wet ground under the roots, making it easier to bag bigger weed trees. Keep your eyes open as you wander your neighborhood for interesting landscapes, and at the edges of car parks for wild plants like my nightshade. Anything that does well in the landscape that you like the leaf or habits of are probably good candidates for hardy bonsai for you. Scout the ground surrounding Japanese Maples, Mulberry and Chinese Elm you see for seedlings in spring and seeds in autumn. The sky is the limit.