Lumpy dougy

sorce

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Range Rover? I said something about a Range Rover? Was I making fun of one?
This old girl has been places that would make a range rover sit down and cry I tell ya! (Well, used to have bigger, better tires). Difflocks on both ends, low range deisel, winch.. Pretty unstoppable actually. This rig has never stopped at a Starbucks, Tim Hortons every now and then though.,
I'm a landcruiser douchebag!!View attachment 108093

Gotcha!
nice!

Sorce
 

wireme

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This tree did not have a good year last year. Got hammered with needle cast pretty good and also showed a decline in general vigour and backbudding. It looked pretty bad in fall and very bad in early spring. I've been very easy on it this year as far as pruning and manipulating. Still despite all that with the new growth mostly elongated now it's looking alright again, better than I expected anyways.
Here's a couple current views, different lighting conditions. There are some structural issues I'm not altogether happy with but a couple more years, adjustments to the crown, tweaking of the branches, should keep improving.
Maybe I'll update again when some of the flowers growing with it open. The flowering plants and the little mountain ash there... Not there for any artistic reason or anything, they just volunteered where they are and I've allowed them to stay for now, the flowers are kinda pretty..image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg
 

my nellie

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I like the tree and its story.
I like the volunteering wild plants, too.
But I have been told (by Mr. P. Warren) that any weeds growing with the tree should be removed because they change the soil pH... Just for consideration :)
 

wireme

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I like the tree and its story.
I like the volunteering wild plants, too.
But I have been told (by Mr. P. Warren) that any weeds growing with the tree should be removed because they change the soil pH... Just for consideration :)

Huh, I haven't heard that before, damn inconsiderate house guests eh? I'm thinking I'll most likely give it a bit of a repot next year and evict the guests. I think I would like to try replacing some of the soil with a mix like @ghues has described using on the island. Graham can you refresh my memory on the details a bit? Once I get my dougies entirely into a coarse mostly inorganic mix they do pretty well but I have a hard time keeping them as dark green as I know they can be.
 

ghues

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Huh, I haven't heard that before, damn inconsiderate house guests eh? I'm thinking I'll most likely give it a bit of a repot next year and evict the guests. I think I would like to try replacing some of the soil with a mix like @ghues has described using on the island. Graham can you refresh my memory on the details a bit? Once I get my dougies entirely into a coarse mostly inorganic mix they do pretty well but I have a hard time keeping them as dark green as I know they can be.

Note sure I'm on the same page on what you are asking (see last paragraph)
Re the guests did they come with the tree?.......With many of the yamadori trees I've collected the root ball comes with many native grasses, herbs and shrubs etc that I don't see as "guests" or "weeds" as in @my nellie 's post.....they are often removed and discarded, however with many of them I leave them alone with the tree or use them as accents.

Alexander, you mentioned the volunteering Wild plants and then put them into the category of a weed? I think that these native plants might affect the trees growth but I'm not sure it would be very detrimental. Could PW's comment regarding removing weeds be focused on unwanted evasive "weeds" in the pot? Coming from the area you live?

@wireme - on the soil mix front- As you know our coastal forest floors (duff, humus matt) can the very thick.......even when it's not, I do use some of this humus (sifted) in the initial repotting process, as part of my organic proportion.
I believe that it can (often does) contain mycorrhiza which is beneficial?
G
 

wireme

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Note sure I'm on the same page on what you are asking (see last paragraph)
Re the guests did they come with the tree?.......With many of the yamadori trees I've collected the root ball comes with many native grasses, herbs and shrubs etc that I don't see as "guests" or "weeds" as in @my nellie 's post.....they are often removed and discarded, however with many of them I leave them alone with the tree or use them as accents.

Alexander, you mentioned the volunteering Wild plants and then put them into the category of a weed? I think that these native plants might affect the trees growth but I'm not sure it would be very detrimental. Could PW's comment regarding removing weeds be focused on unwanted evasive "weeds" in the pot? Coming from the area you live?

@wireme - on the soil mix front- As you know our coastal forest floors (duff, humus matt) can the very thick.......even when it's not, I do use some of this humus (sifted) in the initial repotting process, as part of my organic proportion.
I believe that it can (often does) contain mycorrhiza which is beneficial?
G

Thanks G, I was interested in the mix you have mentioned that includes some seasoil. Maybe you just use that with hemlocks? The product is available here and you had mentioned the deep green of your (islanders) hemlocks compared to others.

I also use sifted duff or similar as a small organic proportion, that's where the volunteers come from, imported seed or maybe live roots, they are native. In the foreground is also a little clump of garden chives, I probably stuck that in on purpose for fun, or hoping for pest control, can't remember.

Here's a little more history, hopefully haven't already said it all in the thread but it's kind of interesting I think.

As I have mentioned among the first trees I ever collected, quite possibly the first. So that would be around 2002 or 2003 I think. So something like 10 yrs into it prior to the first pic, chopped, new leader regrown and branches forming from what were single buds near the trunk that had formed since collection.
I believe it was fall of 2010 when temps dropped below -20 suddenly and killed most of my collection, decimated nurseries stocks and many landscape plants in the area. I had started repotting a few trees in spring not yet knowing how bad it was and finding nothing but dead roots on everything.

This one I pulled from the pot and it was just like a block of styrofoam, all myc, not a root to be seen. I slipped it into a hole in the ground and it stayed there for a couple years. Suffered a little bit that first year then looked good by the end of the next. The next spring is the first photo in this thread. I lifted it and it looked exactly the same as when it was slipped into the ground, not a single root growing out of the white block into the soil. At that point I scratched into it looking, I knew there was still some original collection soil that I wanted to clean out. So I got right into the sandy core near the trunk in a couple spots and a fair ways in all around the perimeter. Not one single root to be found anywhere, still! Apparently just kept alive by the mycorrhizae.

Last spring I lifted it from the pot and had a look, finally a few healthy looking Doug fir roots running along the bottom there. The myc, yellowing, no longer healthy white so I refreshed the outer perimeter of substrate, (still didn't find roots there) I left the bottom alone. I'm really curious what I may find for roots in there next time I do dig around
 

ghues

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Great recovery story on this one.
Yes sifted SeaSoil (1/16"- 1/4") is the main organic component that a lot of us here use especially for our conifers. While visiting up here a few years back Michael H, noted how our hemlocks were a different green than those on his bench.
In our other house we'd get a truck load (every couple of years) and apply about 2" to our landscape beds and the perennials, shrubs and especially azaleas loved the stuff.
 

my nellie

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... ...Could PW's comment regarding removing weeds be focused on unwanted evasive "weeds" in the pot? Coming from the area you live?... ...
I thought I would rather make clear the "context" of Mr. Warren's words, taking into consideration that he most probably will not read these posts and be in a position to clarify....
Well, the tree in question was a juniper bonsai from ordinary nursery stock and the "weeds" on the surface of the substrate were some type of moss growing locally where the owner of the tree lives.
 

PiñonJ

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Thanks G, I was interested in the mix you have mentioned that includes some seasoil. Maybe you just use that with hemlocks? The product is available here and you had mentioned the deep green of your (islanders) hemlocks compared to others.

I also use sifted duff or similar as a small organic proportion, that's where the volunteers come from, imported seed or maybe live roots, they are native. In the foreground is also a little clump of garden chives, I probably stuck that in on purpose for fun, or hoping for pest control, can't remember.

Here's a little more history, hopefully haven't already said it all in the thread but it's kind of interesting I think.

As I have mentioned among the first trees I ever collected, quite possibly the first. So that would be around 2002 or 2003 I think. So something like 10 yrs into it prior to the first pic, chopped, new leader regrown and branches forming from what were single buds near the trunk that had formed since collection.
I believe it was fall of 2010 when temps dropped below -20 suddenly and killed most of my collection, decimated nurseries stocks and many landscape plants in the area. I had started repotting a few trees in spring not yet knowing how bad it was and finding nothing but dead roots on everything.

This one I pulled from the pot and it was just like a block of styrofoam, all myc, not a root to be seen. I slipped it into a hole in the ground and it stayed there for a couple years. Suffered a little bit that first year then looked good by the end of the next. The next spring is the first photo in this thread. I lifted it and it looked exactly the same as when it was slipped into the ground, not a single root growing out of the white block into the soil. At that point I scratched into it looking, I knew there was still some original collection soil that I wanted to clean out. So I got right into the sandy core near the trunk in a couple spots and a fair ways in all around the perimeter. Not one single root to be found anywhere, still! Apparently just kept alive by the mycorrhizae.

Last spring I lifted it from the pot and had a look, finally a few healthy looking Doug fir roots running along the bottom there. The myc, yellowing, no longer healthy white so I refreshed the outer perimeter of substrate, (still didn't find roots there) I left the bottom alone. I'm really curious what I may find for roots in there next time I do dig around
I've been told that dougy roots won't occupy new substrate until you're ready to start removing segments of the field soil from the root ball.
 

wireme

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I've been told that dougy roots won't occupy new substrate until you're ready to start removing segments of the field soil from the root ball.

Really? That's very interesting, a bit strange because it only half matches my experiences but my sample size is quite small and I know your information sources are as good as they get.
Any Doug fir that I've put into a box of substrate has colonized the new media quite well before field soil removal. I have had two dougies that recovered in a soil based raised bed come out with the original rootballs looking exactly the same as they went in, no root extension into the soil at all. That was after 3 and 4 years recovery time too. Both of those since they didn't have any new root I treated just like a freshly collected tree, potted into containers with surrounding substrate and no soil removal (maybe I did tease the exterior a little bit). They've both been repotted again (last spring) and had colonized the new media quite well. One was fully barerooted last time, one partially. The partial did a bit better but both looking pretty good.
The tree in this thread probably had been through a couple partial bareroot type deals prior to the 2010 freeze and did have roots in substrate at some point there.
 

PiñonJ

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Any Doug fir that I've put into a box of substrate has colonized the new media quite well before field soil removal.
That's good to hear. I've got a newly collected dougy in a grow box with pumice, whose root ball I just contoured on the bottom and only lightly disturbed around the edges. We'll see in a couple years whether it's colonizing the new substrate. I wonder if the age of the tree makes a difference.
 

wireme

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I don't know, most of the dougies that I have experienced are not all that young as you can see from the bark. Mind you a couple of these haven't had the first repot yet so we'll see. They seem to not mind being heavily watered even if they do have a big dense chunk of mountain soil. Not that I've completely stopped worrying about overwatering but it seems that way for now...
Your new one growing for you yet?image.jpg

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Arcto

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Nice bark and movement on that last one.
 

PiñonJ

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I don't know, most of the dougies that I have experienced are not all that young as you can see from the bark. Mind you a couple of these haven't had the first repot yet so we'll see. They seem to not mind being heavily watered even if they do have a big dense chunk of mountain soil. Not that I've completely stopped worrying about overwatering but it seems that way for now...
Your new one growing for you yet?View attachment 149335

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Very nice! My new one is pushing buds very well. I know that can happen from stored resources, but it seems quite vigorous overall (and my new spruce is exploding with growth). Here's the dougy:
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wireme

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Update for this year. Not an update I’m terribly proud of. The tree the last few years has been growing and just kind of healthy but not strong and vigorous. Not producing the quantity of buds and backbuds needed to present cutback opportunities. I made a change to fertilizing methods late summer last year. Big difference showed in weeds growing in pots with trees right away, I think it will help put this tree back on track as well. I’d like to cutback branches more aggressively and do more positioning with wire but basically a rest and grow year.
Probably lost that upper right/back branch, overwintering error there. Last years buds and needles all dead, some new tiny buds popping on it now so it just may pull through. C54DB499-6ACD-47FE-91B1-E8DCDDE0B5ED.jpeg
 
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