Lurker Gone Legit

[ShadyStump]

Just saying hello, and introducing myself. I've been aching to get into bonsai since I was first introduced to the concept as a little kid, but my parents didn't approve/take me seriously. So, flash forward a few decades and it's been fifteen or sixteen years since I tried growing a tree, and I'm in full obsessive mode now trying to make up for lost time, with the support of my wife surprisingly enough. Got back into it about a year ago.
I apparently have a penchant for doing things the hard way, starting with pinyon pines- I love the things. Can't seem to keep them alive for the life of me, damned transplant shock. So, anyone with some tips for a newb on an EXTREMELY TIGHT BUDGET, I'm all ears.
Don't expect me to be all over the place around here- I'm a lurker by profession- but I've come across enough info and humor that it seemed worthwhile to come out of the shadows.
Thanks for everything ahead of time.

 

[HorseloverFat]

*Monotone chanting*

ONE OF US! .....ONE OF US!

Greetings! Let us frolic uproariously within the Tiny Forest.

Pinyon Pines, eh! .... I am NOT the right “mafck” to pass along guiding information. But never fear! These halls are virtually “lined” with interesting and knowledgeable individuals. (I’m assuming that you are already aware of this )

Just “George of the Jungle”ing through...... yelling;..

Pleasure to make your acquaintance!

 

[HorseloverFat]

As far as the EXTREMELY tight budget.. I most infuriatingly “feel you”...

Big yogurt containers have helped me (and my pocket) quite extensively.

Rainwater collection has done the same for “me and my pocket”.

The utilization of Diatomaceous Earth as a substrate component... ditto.

I have seen “bonsai guys” advertise for FREE shrub removal on an appointment basis... this could potentially be a never-ending supply of material....

The “foundation” that your plants will need to survive and thrive will cost quite little... More expensive “bells snd whistles” could be added to your routine or set-up as either you see fit.. or becomes fiscally congruent.

 

[sorce]

So how are we going to overcome this "transplant shock" problem?

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[Johnathan]

So how are we going to overcome this "transplant shock" problem?

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

I was thinking the same thing. What have you been using as a substrate/ soil for them to be transplanted into?

 

[NOZZLE HEAD]

Horticultural Seaweed and Phosphites both reduce stress, can’t hurt, assuming that it isn’t an issue with pruning off all the active root tips, or some unquantifiable mycorrhizal interaction.

 

[ShadyStump]

Thanks, all, for the warm welcome.
My most recent victim is another pinyon pine (I must say, I prefer spelling it with a tilde, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to make it LOL) that appears almost entirely dead, but when I finally gave up and dumped it out of its pot, there was substantial new root growth. So just reported it with mostly gravel mixed with some compost soil from the yard.
Overall, I'd say my issue is that I try to keep them in soil from the area in which I found them, but there's so much clay around these parts the roots can't breathe at all.
Pinyons are odd for pines, as I read it, because they like slightly alkaline soil. Not much way to achieve that while keeping butchered roots wet.
I found some really great info on the Rocky Mountain Bonsai Society site (way too hoity toity for me) but again, I can't afford to spend money on hobbies, so expensive soil ingredients are out of the question. Heck, my wife and I fight over the plastic nursery pots we steal from the neighbors' trash cans.

 

[Bnana]

Sounds like the soil is the problem. Having some of the old soil is a good idea but you want a free draining soil. Clay is really bad as it becomes anaerobic.
Gravel is a good component but you should mix it with something that retains water but doesn't clog the soil. This can be the fancy akadama but also pumice or Seramis/Turface/Oil-Dri/Molar can be good.
I personally use Molar, that is being sold as cat litter (but has to be the right kind of cat litter!).
Price and availability differ around the world so check what's cheap for you and ask if it is good here.

 

[cheap_walmart_art]

I've been aching to get into bonsai since I was first introduced to the concept as a little kid, but my parents didn't approve/take me seriously

The whole reason why I never truly discovered a passion for music until I was in my 30s.

 

[sorce]

alkaline soil.

You'll get trees to live without going that far yet.

FTR, When you say Extremely Tight Budget, I feel like energy of mind also goes into that budget, and you are spending a bit too much I reckon.

Dead trees are OK too, super educational even, if they're studied...pics?

Having new roots in that bucket you tossed and repotted, says you're already successful with your actions, it's impatience winning, that's all.

Hell, some people think they'll see a pine grow.
That's not likely to happen again till next year. Maybe even 2, even 3 years later.

Collect more root than you have, wash out more old clay than you have, and they'll live.

Do it near or just before a full moon, and success will be higher.

Know you can't do anything to it but water for a year, and success will be higher.

Stop fighting with her over old nursery pots, and success will be higher. (Don't know how that one works, but it does, lol!)

But seriously....

Nursery pots are nice, free and all, bit they are complete shit for raising trees at the home.
In a nursery, they are close together and full of shade. Cool, and growing.

One winter morning here, (there's pics somewhere) I measured sub freezing temps on snow covered soil, I think about 23F, the outside of the pot was 85F in the sun. That's an unhealthy difference, for am organism that prefers to grow under the cover of Earth.

I reckon where you are, similar temp differences might be witnessed every morning. That's a lotta dead roots! An environment that will kill a tree well before it gives a pHlupHy pHuck about pH!

I reckon you have about 6 months before the tree even cares about pH. Then about another 6 months until it starts showing signs of being unhealthy because of it. Them about another 6 months till it becomes unhealthy, and maybe about 6 years till it dies.

Sorce

 

[Cadillactaste]

Welcome! I'm not a conifer person persay...but, things like window of opportunity to collect, and aftercare I do know is HUGE when yamadori collecting. So, maybe start there...I cut my teeth here learning the hobby. You are off to a good start with just finding yourself here. The search engine is a goldmine...and some great advice shared as well.

 

[ShadyStump]

@sorce, you're not wrong, but...
Maybe this pic will explain.
Collected it in the wild in March. Had to chop allot of root, and it's neighboring cactus almost killed me too. Starting early May it turned bad fast. Maybe a dozen green needles left on the thing. I've seen and heard of particularly vigorous deciduous trees coming back from shock this bad, but a pine won't start growing new needles until next spring, and I'm not sure it will survive winter this bare.

 

[sorce]

Have a gander at this.

I don't know that Walter brings up Cactus, but that'd be a good reason to leave that one be!

Succeed!

Sorce

 

[Pitoon]

Just saying hello, and introducing myself. I've been aching to get into bonsai since I was first introduced to the concept as a little kid, but my parents didn't approve/take me seriously. So, flash forward a few decades and it's been fifteen or sixteen years since I tried growing a tree, and I'm in full obsessive mode now trying to make up for lost time, with the support of my wife surprisingly enough. Got back into it about a year ago.
I apparently have a penchant for doing things the hard way, starting with pinyon pines- I love the things. Can't seem to keep them alive for the life of me, damned transplant shock. So, anyone with some tips for a newb on an EXTREMELY TIGHT BUDGET, I'm all ears.
Don't expect me to be all over the place around here- I'm a lurker by profession- but I've come across enough info and humor that it seemed worthwhile to come out of the shadows.
Thanks for everything ahead of time.

You can get yourself an azalea on sale enter it into the azalea 2020-2025 contest, convert it into bonsai and learn some things along the way.

 

[ShadyStump]

@sorce, I very much appreciate the principals in that video, just have to say that the tree in the pic, if you noticed it's really a busted stump, was found in a parking area on public recreation land and had been run over by a truck. Impulsive decision to improve the grounds and possibly save the tree from slow but certain vehicular arborcide.
@Pitoon, I've actually taken to potting the elms and mulberries that are taking over my yard. Can't kill 'em on purpose, so I ought to be able to keep 'em alive on accident.

 

[SantaFe]

Thanks, all, for the warm welcome.
My most recent victim is another pinyon pine (I must say, I prefer spelling it with a tilde, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to make it LOL) that appears almost entirely dead, but when I finally gave up and dumped it out of its pot, there was substantial new root growth. So just reported it with mostly gravel mixed with some compost soil from the yard.
Overall, I'd say my issue is that I try to keep them in soil from the area in which I found them, but there's so much clay around these parts the roots can't breathe at all.
Pinyons are odd for pines, as I read it, because they like slightly alkaline soil. Not much way to achieve that while keeping butchered roots wet.
I found some really great info on the Rocky Mountain Bonsai Society site (way too hoity toity for me) but again, I can't afford to spend money on hobbies, so expensive soil ingredients are out of the question. Heck, my wife and I fight over the plastic nursery pots we steal from the neighbors' trash cans.

I’m just starting to care for a piñon that I collected this month near my house in Santa Fe. It had very few roots, unfortunately, but great deadwood and a long, twisty shape. I’m trying it in pure pumice that I shoveled into a dishpan from a Jemez Mountain roadcut (also free, gotta love it), watering every day and misting every morning. I think it’s actually gonna make it! If you’re in southern Colorado, you might Google around to see if there are any volcanoes near you that could have pumice in the roadcuts.

 

[DonovanC]

Long thread, too much to read. Just stopping by to say welcome!

 

[SantaFe]

Gracias! Looks like a great resource and a great group of people.