Mai Kujaku girdling roots

ceriano

Shohin
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I’m considering getting this dancing peacock but the roots are girdling and looks like they have grown over the stake. Is this a big problem? I’m looking to plant it in the garden so air layering is not an option.
 

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ceriano

Shohin
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I’m considering getting this dancing peacock but the roots are girdling and looks like they have grown over the stake. Is this a big problem?
Different angle
 

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Shibui

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I am not familiar with the variety name but I believe this is an Acer japonicum cultivar.
Most maples are quite good at growing new roots when they need to do so. Planting a little deeper will allow the tree to send out new roots from the trunk if/when those tangled roots start to strangle each other.
Even now you could snip off a couple of the worst small roots so the tangled mess does not get much worse.
The stake in the roots won't be a problem. Just cut it off as close to the tree as possible and the roots will just grow over the top of the rest as it rots away.

When you mention it will go in the garden does that mean as a landscape tree or just to grow on for eventual bonsai? Neither will actually preclude layering to get better roots if you really want to.
As a landscape tree the tangled roots won't usually be a problem. The tree can sort out which are sending in good water and nutrients and which are constricted and the better ones will grow. Some will fuse as they grow and allow new sap paths so eventually the tree will sort out effective roots from useless ones as it grows.
 

ceriano

Shohin
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I am not familiar with the variety name but I believe this is an Acer japonicum cultivar.
Most maples are quite good at growing new roots when they need to do so. Planting a little deeper will allow the tree to send out new roots from the trunk if/when those tangled roots start to strangle each other.
Even now you could snip off a couple of the worst small roots so the tangled mess does not get much worse.
The stake in the roots won't be a problem. Just cut it off as close to the tree as possible and the roots will just grow over the top of the rest as it rots away.

When you mention it will go in the garden does that mean as a landscape tree or just to grow on for eventual bonsai? Neither will actually preclude layering to get better roots if you really want to.
As a landscape tree the tangled roots won't usually be a problem. The tree can sort out which are sending in good water and nutrients and which are constricted and the better ones will grow. Some will fuse as they grow and allow new sap paths so eventually the tree will sort out effective roots from useless ones as it grows.
Yes it will be a landscape tree. I have seen partial dieback in JPMs with girdling roots. I have never seen one this bad though. Almost all roots are fused
 

Shibui

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Note that Acer japonicum is not the same as Acer palmatum though both are often referred to as Japanese maple.
I have also seen dieback from tangled roots strangling each other. I have also seen as many examples of root systems sorting themselves out by natural selection of more productive roots and changing sap flow through fused roots.
With those tangled roots exposed to the air the tree has no choice but to work with the ones below soil level. Planting a few inches deeper can allow the tree opportunity to send out new, better formed roots that will eventually replace the restricted tangle below. You'll need to help by providing best conditions for that to happen - plant deep enough to allow it, make sure the soil does not dry out until new roots have established and reached out and down to deeper permanent soil moisture.
That approach is not guaranteed, just less intervention and hope for the best.
Alternatives include:
Nurse the tree through summer and next winter then bare root and do major root work to sort out the best root system possible. Pot and provide good care while it recovers then plant out the following year. Lots of work and still no guarantees but maples are very resilient and can survive major root reduction.

Snip off some of the worst roots you can get to now. Less invasive and still no guarantees.

Ground layer - either in the pot this summer or in the ground but in ground you'll need to provide constant moisture for the new roots to develop.

All things considered it is much better to choose trees with better attributes right from the start though I know sometimes choices can be limited. While we continue to purchase sub-standard trees growers will continue to produce similar stock because that's easier and quicker than producing good ones.
 

ceriano

Shohin
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Note that Acer japonicum is not the same as Acer palmatum though both are often referred to as Japanese maple.
I have also seen dieback from tangled roots strangling each other. I have also seen as many examples of root systems sorting themselves out by natural selection of more productive roots and changing sap flow through fused roots.
With those tangled roots exposed to the air the tree has no choice but to work with the ones below soil level. Planting a few inches deeper can allow the tree opportunity to send out new, better formed roots that will eventually replace the restricted tangle below. You'll need to help by providing best conditions for that to happen - plant deep enough to allow it, make sure the soil does not dry out until new roots have established and reached out and down to deeper permanent soil moisture.
That approach is not guaranteed, just less intervention and hope for the best.
Alternatives include:
Nurse the tree through summer and next winter then bare root and do major root work to sort out the best root system possible. Pot and provide good care while it recovers then plant out the following year. Lots of work and still no guarantees but maples are very resilient and can survive major root reduction.

Snip off some of the worst roots you can get to now. Less invasive and still no guarantees.

Ground layer - either in the pot this summer or in the ground but in ground you'll need to provide constant moisture for the new roots to develop.

All things considered it is much better to choose trees with better attributes right from the start though I know sometimes choices can be limited. While we continue to purchase sub-standard trees growers will continue to produce similar stock because that's easier and quicker than producing good ones.
Super helpful thanks a bunch. I’m afraid lot of nursery stocks may have similar issues with girdling roots. They’re often planted too deeps so issues like this are not visible.
I always knock off the top 2”-3” of soil to reveal some root flare before getting the trees in ground.l but I have never washed the roots for landscape tree to see how bad the girdling is.
with this particular tree I feel ground layering is the way to go but at $550 I don’t think I’d be comfortable going that route. Girdling roots won’t be a problem if someone decides to keep it as a container plant. The tree doesn’t have to work hard to get water and nutrients but as a landscape tree I feel this will struggle in the long run.
 

ceriano

Shohin
Messages
352
Reaction score
131
Location
Richmond, Virginia
USDA Zone
7a
Note that Acer japonicum is not the same as Acer palmatum though both are often referred to as Japanese maple.
I have also seen dieback from tangled roots strangling each other. I have also seen as many examples of root systems sorting themselves out by natural selection of more productive roots and changing sap flow through fused roots.
With those tangled roots exposed to the air the tree has no choice but to work with the ones below soil level. Planting a few inches deeper can allow the tree opportunity to send out new, better formed roots that will eventually replace the restricted tangle below. You'll need to help by providing best conditions for that to happen - plant deep enough to allow it, make sure the soil does not dry out until new roots have established and reached out and down to deeper permanent soil moisture.
That approach is not guaranteed, just less intervention and hope for the best.
Alternatives include:
Nurse the tree through summer and next winter then bare root and do major root work to sort out the best root system possible. Pot and provide good care while it recovers then plant out the following year. Lots of work and still no guarantees but maples are very resilient and can survive major root reduction.

Snip off some of the worst roots you can get to now. Less invasive and still no guarantees.

Ground layer - either in the pot this summer or in the ground but in ground you'll need to provide constant moisture for the new roots to develop.

All things considered it is much better to choose trees with better attributes right from the start though I know sometimes choices can be limited. While we continue to purchase sub-standard trees growers will continue to produce similar stock because that's easier and quicker than producing good ones.
They’ve a 30% off sale this weekend. Still not cheap but it may worth giving it a shot. The price is comparable to other more common JPMs.
 
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