Mailbox Bonsai

ml_work

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I have been watching this tree for the past 20 years or more. It is on the street my parents live on and even before I worked with bonsai I thought it was being cut to be some type of bonsai. I knew the owners of the home but not very well. I saw the wife one day at the local school that I was doing some work at and ask her was her husband shaping the juniper at the mailbox as a bonsai. She ask what is a bonsai, I had my answer and gave her a quick explanation of bonsai. Told her to tell her husband if he ever got tired of it let me know and I would dig it up. Well they sold the house about 18 months ago and I keep telling my self I need to stop by and tell the new owner the same thing, if they ever wanted it moved, let me know. I did not know them too good so I never stopped by, I pass this house every day on my way to work. This summer I saw some men cutting the grass and trimming the hedge around the house, Should Have Stopped and ask.... on my way home that afternoon.... they had cut the tree way back to a BOX shape. Cutting the ends off of many branches, as I watched it die back through out the summer I wanted to kick my self. I saw the owner in town one day and told him how I had been watching the tree and that if they continued to cut it back like they did it would die for sure. Ask the same thing, if you ever want to get rid of it just let me know, he said OK sure and started waking off. then turned around and said just come on by and get it. I told him I would wait till winter as it was still hot end of summer. He said he would tell his people doing the yard not to touch it any more. I know it would be best for it to just stay in the ground there and recover over the next couple of years. But afraid the yard men may forget and give it another hair cut. Now that we are getting to a point that it should be some cold freeze I want to dig it up. I plan to build a box for it and get some pumice or use some mix of Turface and bark (mixture that BVF told me about ) that I already have. I will get as much root ball and leave a fair amount of soil if possible.
It is hard to tell much from the pictures with the weeds around it. You can see all the die back that happened and size of a couple of branches. One picture shows the trunk also.
What is the best route for this and all the dead limbs, should I cut them off when I dig it up or wait until it recovers. Once all the dead are gone it may not be any thing left to really work with, but it is worth a try.
Thanks for your Help
IMG_1434.jpgIMG_1435.jpgIMG_1436.jpgIMG_1438.jpgIMG_1437.jpg
 

leatherback

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Oeh tough one!
I would say.. Leave it for another year but yeah, you will be have a dead juniper for sure if they trim it like that again. And the owner might forget too and have it pulled out sorry-looking as it is right now. Good base though and once strong it might backbud (Assuming you remove the old bark)

I am in the habit of leaving all the green stuff on as long as I have no clear view on the health of the tree. I suppose you could clean the dead stuff out a bit. But leave all branches that have a little bit of green on them. It is not a strong tree right now by the looks of the foliage. Get loads of roots, minimal disturbance. So lift and pot up as soon as you have it out of the ground (Maybe even on-site?). Mist loads and plant in pumice. That's all I have.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Dead is dead. When you get ready to dig it up, take a trash bag with you, and cut out all the dead stuff that is smaller than thumb-thick and more than 12” out from the trunk, leaving a few stubs for jin later.

Then you’ll know what you have, and can access the soil to dig a good rootball.

Looks like the trunk has a nice twist. It has plenty of foliage to support the tree, but didn’t cut any away when you dig it.
 

ml_work

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Thanks Leathback, agreed leaving in the ground to recover would be the best, but as said another hair cut and it will be gone. I will leave any green that is there, wish I had a picture of before the cut. it was really full and green but had gotten bushed out. the previous owner did keep it shaped nice over the years, maybe his wife was not aware of his plan for the tree. It is about a 20 minute drive back to my house, with root ball in a plastic bag I think it should be fine. Not sure I understand about removing the old bark, you mean the loose bark on the trunk or branches?

Brian thanks for the advice, I figured Dead is Dead but nice to hear from someone with your knowledge. and like the idea of cutting back before the dig to get a better view. it is in a small bricked in area at the mail box so I don't want to make a mess in the yard. I an getting a couple of bags of top soil to take with me and fill in the hole when removed. The trunk does have a twist that could be seen in earlier years, I looks like there may have been another tree in there that was cut out at some point.

Any suggestions for the size of box for this?
 

Dav4

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Ideally, you'd build a box to fit the root ball... just enough room on all sides of the root ball to fill in with some good bonsai soil, though straight pumice would be ideal. As Brian said, don't cut any of the foliage. Once it's recovered and growing well, I'd plan on doing some auto- approach grafts to get the foliage where you need it. Have fun!
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Any suggestions for the size of box for this?
The smallest box you can stuff it into. I have no idea what that might be by what has been shared here, but don’t leave any extra room for soil to stay wet. You want the roots to quickly and fully colonize the pot. Junipers can live for a really long time pot bound, so that is no issue at all.
 

ml_work

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I think I will try the straight pumice, for some reason I have 3/8 size in mind ... must have read it somewhere.
this will be my first use of it, what size would be good for this project. If any is left over I will mix with some bark for a couple of other trees that I want to repot.
 

ml_work

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I ordered a couple of bags of pumice, it listed as 15 pounds / 4 -4.5 gallons. It came in and sure does not look like 4-4.5 gallons, I plan to check that out but do not want to spend any more for pumice for this tree. I have never used perlite but read on here of people using it. I found some at our Wal-Mart and got 3 bags to add to the pumice if I have to build the box to a size that the pumice will not fill. Which would be the best way to do this, I will have a thin layer of small rocks on the bottom, should I add the perlite in the bottom and put the pumice on top of it. Thinking the root ball will be in the pumice and start growing in it first and grow into the lower layer of perlite as time goes. Thinking the pumice may be the better of the two so the roots start there and the pumice on top of the perlite would help to keep it from coming / floating to the top. Or just mix the 2 together and fill the box? I may not need the perlite at all if the root ball is not very large. I am restricted to the small growing area around the mail box, don't want to dig out into their yard.
Thanks
 

leatherback

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I only know perlite as very fine grained and highly water retensive. Unless you have very coarse perlite.. Why would you use this? Would this not negate the positives of your coarse dry pumice?
 

sorce

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No Floaty Perlite!

Sorce
 
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Looks like a nice catch. Aftercare will be critical. For potting mix i would use akadama/pumice 50/50. Smallest box as possible as suggested. If collected early, bottom heat might help. Make sure the mailbox stays steady and the surrounding area stays clean. Always good to make good "advertising" for yourself. Ask if he wants it to be replaced with a young and vigorous plant of choice. Might open new opportunities.
 

ml_work

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Leatherback, I understand what you are saying... as I said I have never used perlite but the picture on the bag look like it was pretty large and what I could feel through the bag felt large and if I decided not to use it I will take back, I keep the receipt. My plan was just the pumice, which I have never used either, but I wanted to give it a try and thought this tree was worth the extra cost. When the 2 bags came I and are smaller than what I thought I just can justify getting more of it so I thought of the perlite since I had read others used it. I figured it would be better than mixing with some old bonsai soil that I have.
Sorce, my thinking was with it in the lower layer maybe it would not float .. but I think you are really saying do not use it.
Dirk, when everyone says smallest box as possible I have no idea what that will be, hope it would be where I could fill with just the pumice. I am just trying to have a plan, once I dig it up I will not have time to order something else even if I was willing to spend more. I do not have a heat pad for the box, I do have a small well filter house with a light in it that it could go in, but was really planning on putting it on the deck where it could get full sun this summer and not have to be moved, chance disturbing the roots. I am thinking on doing this weekend, we are not getting the extreme cold in middle Alabama. I had not thought about the mailbox moving ... that is good thought. The original owner was a school teacher and students would ride by and throw things at the mailbox or hit it to knock it over (yes I am in Alabama) so after replacing the post and mailbox multiple times you can see they now have an iron pipe holding it up, just daring some punk to hit it. so I would think it most likely has big cement ball holding it in the ground. But I will be watching as I dig. I did offer to the owner that I would fill the hole with top soil and he said no don't worry about it. But I am getting a few bags of top soil to fill in the hole and then go by this spring and put some kind of flowers in the dirt as a surprise.

Thank you all for you reply and help, I am trying to do this right but do have a budget to keep to...
 

leatherback

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You can probably only gauge the minimum box size once you have dug it. I would focus on getting the plant home, roots tighly wrapped, and protect the plant against wind (If you have a open truckbed) as you transport it home. Then build the box once you get home with the plant. Unwrap the roots. Put in box. Fix securly. fill the box with substrate. Water. Wait..

I always feel that making sure roots are cut flush with sharp trimmers helps re-rooting. Not sure what others think.
 
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I would dig a trench around the rootball after cleaning the upper portion. Wrap it and take it home. Make a custom box so make sure wood and tools are ready. Fix the rootball firmly and extra guy wires are often a safe option. If the pumice is too small you might have opposite effect of the good points of pumice. It will stay wet for a longer time.
 

ml_work

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Both sound like my plan. I purchased the wood for box couple weeks ago, they did not have cedar so I had to get pine shelving. I will measure the root ball before I put in a plastic bag to have / remember what size to build the box. It is open truck bed, will have close to the cab, a slow ride home about 6 miles. The pumice I ordered is 3/8 largest they had and has been sifted. I will wire to the bottom of the box but from the looks of it I may have to anchor to the sides some way, I think it may be top heavy. I looking forward to it, have been watching this tree a Long time. Wish I had told / ask the new home owner about getting it before they hacked it back, it was really full and green all over.

I always feel that making sure roots are cut flush with sharp trimmers helps re-rooting
That was my understanding first book I ever read about bonsai... makes sense and I try to do that.
 

ml_work

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Collection Day - Perfect Day - Almost
Perfect weather, cloudy 65F.. no rain. The owner was not home, just me to take my time, followed instructions from the Pros in above post. Removed as much dead wood as possible, not as much there as I thought. Did not cut anything that had any green on it. Use my saw and cut around the bottom working within the limits of mailbox and bricks. Before cutting the bottom I pulled on the tree and it was not very grounded... that should have been a hint. I got it up with little digging and felt like I had a good amount of roots in the soil. Wrapped in plastic, cleaned up and filled hole with Miracle Grow.. left the owner a note in the soil. Will go back in the spring and put something in there when available. Things are going smooth, head home and start on the Grow Box, first one I have ever built and used
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/grow-pots.21567/ - Scott's
All was going great, every screw went in place, no misses out the sides, the corner pieces add the extra strength. I did substitute the sheet rock tape with crochet mesh (may not be crochet). I had measured the root ball and it was 16" so I did the box 17.5". Put a bag of pumice in the box and saw it was going to be plenty without using the Perlite.
Time was going smooth even had time to stop and play with my granddaughter, she keep coming to the door wanting to go outside and it was the first time in 3 weeks warm enough for her.
Go through the branches and cut back more dead wood now that I had better access. Then I removed the plastic bag and cut one piece that was sticking up and the tree would stand free on the work table. Start slowly removing the soil from the roots and the day went South! The soil was a black sandy soil most likely some potting soil from years ago. As I removed the soil the smaller roots were not attached to anything... I was not pulling hard (or I don't think I was) so I don't think the pulled loose. As I went around it was just dirt with loose roots, I felt sick as I know this is not good. I went on and filled the box with the first bag of pumice, it appears there was just one big root / tap and that is what I anchored it to the box with. Used about all the second bag to cover what roots are there.
I have thought over and over what did I do or could I have done for more roots. If I had dug deeper straight down would I had more, maybe, but limited with the area I had to work within. And if you look in the whole after I got it out there is not any roots showing like I had cut a bunch of them off.
So it turned out as planned, but I don't think it will make it with such small amount of roots. I will water daily and start to fertilize in a couple of weeks. Had Fun and Learned some too.... Any other suggestions ....
Thanks for everyone's Help...
 

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ml_work

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leatherback

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I would put wires from the main trun to at least three points of the box to full stabilize it. That one wire around a root will only rub and damage the root.

Keep it out of the wind. Maybe wrap in semi-transparant cloth and keep misted / moist. Basically you have created a large cutting. Treat it as such. It may surprise you
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Don’t wrap it. Otherwise, Leatherback is right.
Immobilize it, keep it in shade and out of wind. Mist the trunk and foliage several times a day, but do not overwater the soil. You want the tree to grow roots in search of water. It has a chance if aftercare is really good.
 

ml_work

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Thanks Leatherback and Brian, I just had to check first thing this morning to see if anyone had given any Hope or just except as DOA. I did anchor with the 2 other small wires you see in the Grow Box picture ( I found I did not have enough large wire). I had planned to tie it off to the box but with the two small wires it is actually pretty stable.. not much movement at all. Afraid to tighten the wire anymore, fear it may break. I put on the deck so it would be there for the summer without having to move it and disturb the roots / if any. But I guess with a box it will not be the same chance as with a plastic pot. I will get it moved into my well filter house today and can add guy wire if you still think it is needed with the other small wire.
Thanks
 

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