Major Sargent

Eric Group

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So I thought I had an old progression thread started on this guy but could not find it anywhere... so time to start one. I will have to go dig for some old pics becaus this guy has come a looonnnnggg way from it's nursery pot days. It was an OLD three gallon with runners popping off everywhere... cut it back, carved it up and let it grow again, repotted to a Bonsai pot, cut back harder... all that was done about 3-4 years ago. Been in a Bonsai pot since, this is what he looked like right off the bench, all I have done is removed the massive moss infestation that had populated the top layer of soil and climbed up the trunk...IMG_3901.JPGIMG_3902.JPGIMG_3904.JPGIMG_3905.JPGIMG_3907.JPG
 

Eric Group

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And after some clean up... no wire today, just a hair cut and some TOC, a bit of picking and peeling on those super sharp Jins... hope I can find the older pics. Show how far it has come! Not a blue ribbon winner but it has nostalgic value for me. This is a very rough growing variety of Juniper- a close cousin to Shimpaku with coarse, prickly growth... I pretty much treat it like a Needle Juniper as the mature foliage is still pretty thick.
IMG_3925.JPG IMG_3927.JPG IMG_3928.JPG IMG_3929.JPG IMG_3930.JPG IMG_3931.JPG IMG_3932.JPG

Trying to decide about the top. Don't like the way it looks right now, but I plan on wiring it out again once I see it is recovered from this hacking...
 

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Not bad!! Definitely want to see the old pics, always exciting!!!

I was gonna ask when you pruned it last, then you posted up the 2nd set of pics

The movement is nice and smooth. No idea on the best top here.
 

Eric Group

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Not bad!! Definitely want to see the old pics, always exciting!!!

I was gonna ask when you pruned it last, then you posted up the 2nd set of pics

The movement is nice and smooth. No idea on the best top here.
Thanks, I generally prune it only once or twice a year... they grow slow in a Bonsai pots and constantly removing new growth really weakens Juniper- despite what some training techniques may tell people to do... I prefer happy, healthy trees, not trees stunted because they are barely clinging to life.

I feel like many people wind up picking at their Junipers until they get weak, then they get a bug or fungus that they cannot recover from because they were weak and eventually the tree dies... then we get the "why did my Juniper turn brown" threads. If you allow them to recover between pruning and send long runners out, you know the tree is healthy an d ready for work.

This isn't a Shimpaku obviously, which is what most people are working on. I have plenty of those too, but it is fun to work with something different every now and then. I have taken a bunch of cuttings from this guy and, because they grow so much faster than a Shimpaku when you let them go, I am doing some experiments with fusing trunks of the Sargent with Shimpaku, grafting... to make larger, twisted trees from smaller cuttings... seems to be going well so far. I have 2-3 where both the Shimpakua be Sargent are living and growing rapidly, takes a few years for them to meld together though...
 

StoneCloud

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I have to agree Junipers are probably the most picked at trees. I learned that the hard way when I started. Now it's once a year w/ the junipers. I like working different material. it's refreshing!! There are many many shimpaku's.

The fusions will be cool as well. I gotta start doing more experimenting.

You've got much more experience than me but if it helps had some thoughts on this guy:

IMG_3932.JPG


OR...........

IMG_3932.JPG

and what is funny is I can't stop seeing only this :D:D:


IMG_3932.JPG
 

Eric Group

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I have to agree Junipers are probably the most picked at trees. I learned that the hard way when I started. Now it's once a year w/ the junipers. I like working different material. it's refreshing!! There are many many shimpaku's.

The fusions will be cool as well. I gotta start doing more experimenting.

You've got much more experience than me but if it helps had some thoughts on this guy:

View attachment 170039


OR...........

View attachment 170040

and what is funny is I can't stop seeing only this :D:D:


View attachment 170041
More than likely just going to wire it down to make a pad at the top and refine the shape some more... Third pic is deffinitely not an option! I know that was a joke (right?) but for those who do bot know- Please keep in mind Juniper do not heal like Maples... that type of chop would never really heal over and might well kill the tree!
 

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Ok Eric... I love you like a brother but that is an ugly tree :)

I think the problem is that you are trying to make it look like a bonsai... instead of trying to make it look like an old tree in nature. The deadwood is too heavy, the branches are too thick and lacking in taper, etc. So I can see why you are trying to see the tree with "new eyes" and it troubles you as you are making small incremental styling decisions.

Here is your tree :) Trim it to this and then start developing your branches and in two years you will have an awesome tree!

eric.jpg
 

Eric Group

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Ok Eric... I love you like a brother but that is an ugly tree :)

I think the problem is that you are trying to make it look like a bonsai... instead of trying to make it look like an old tree in nature. The deadwood is too heavy, the branches are too thick and lacking in taper, etc. So I can see why you are trying to see the tree with "new eyes" and it troubles you as you are making small incremental styling decisions.

Here is your tree :) Trim it to this and then start developing your branches and in two years you will have an awesome tree!

View attachment 170223

Oh it is butt ass ugly, no doubt! I may not have mentioned this- but it is one of the first Juniper I styled from a nursery tree! Nostalgic value I guess... I am going to work on it again early next year, I want to see how it grows this Spring before I add any more stress... this recomendation might be a bit more dramatic than I have in mind, but I will check back when the time comes!

I an certainly going to reduce that long jin, I am going to increase and enhance the Shari that you cannot really see... I have two lower branches I am trying tk decide between regarding a new jin and where to go with the shari... So it will look a lot different! Branches will be shortened and wired...

Overall I am not trying to make a show stopper here, just trying to see what I can do with the Sargent foliage so I won’t be grafting a finer type of growth on it or anything... I don’t exoect it to be something great, just something different.
 

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With boldness it can be a good tree. With spirit it can be a great tree :) Always remind yourself that it is the nebari and bottom 25% of the trunk that defines a bonsai - and all the rest is window dressing :)

I have an old tree that is uglier than this one. I have owned it for 30 years. I have known for 28 years that I needed to take drastic action. This spring I will do so... by air-layering off a lower branch that is half the tree and far too thick... and I will end up with two bonsai! To misquote Teddy Roosevelt:

I will rather kill the tree than to allow it to "rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
 

StoneCloud

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More than likely just going to wire it down to make a pad at the top and refine the shape some more... Third pic is deffinitely not an option! I know that was a joke (right?) but for those who do bot know- Please keep in mind Juniper do not heal like Maples... that type of chop would never really heal over and might well kill the tree!


Yes that 3rd pic was a joke :) But my eye kept going to that pad so I figured I would share LOL It looks like a raptor claw after my ghetto photo shop!

I get the nostalgia too often, never want to get rid of any trees. It's ugly but not crazy ugly and there is potential

I like @Bonsai Nut view on this though agree that is drastic, but it ages way more age to my eye.
 

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I like @Bonsai Nut view on this though agree that is drastic, but it ages way more age to my eye.

That isn't the final design - just how far I would trim it back. I ran out of time last night to do a true virtual of where I would have it end up.
 

StoneCloud

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That isn't the final design - just how far I would trim it back. I ran out of time last night to do a true virtual of where I would have it end up.

I figured as much and was imagining some nice branches on it.

Now for next time if you could just add foliage that would be great! :p:p:p:p:p
 

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Now for next time if you could just add foliage that would be great! :p:p:p:p:p

eric2.jpg

I tilted it a little bit to the right to give more sexy to the nebari :) Right now the image looks flat. You would want to have some back branches to fill out the volume - including possibly one peeking out on the right between the upper and middle jin. I think @Eric Group would be happy with this tree... and I really didn't do anything more than prune and wire! (No major trunk bends, etc)
 
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Bonsai Nut

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WOW!!!! that is freakin' awesome. I swear you can barely tell. I have to get some nice editing software. Currently using MS Paint on DOS LOLOL

I am using a 10 year-old copy of Photoshop, LOL :) I just opened the old original image on one side, and the new virt on the other side, and "painted" the foliage from one image to the other wherever I wanted it :)
 
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