Major spider mite problem

iant

Chumono
Messages
525
Reaction score
336
Location
Redwood City, CA
USDA Zone
9B
They seem to be everywhere. I checked with a 10 loop magnifier and I can see the whitish tan colored guys moving and some little tiny eggs under leaves. There are thin webs all over. It's on 2 elms, a couple cedars, my hornbeam, my stewartia, my azalea, most of my chaenomeles, my punica x 3, a couple of the smaller maples, my ginko, my crabapples, and my alpine willow.
The only things that don't seem affected are my prunus and pines and juniper. My biggest maple seems clear.
On the most affected plants it looks like some of the new shoots have leaf buds toward the tips that are shriveling. That could be a different problem but who knows.
I noticed the little webs last year and suspected the problem but I never got a magnifying lens out to verify it and only sprayed once with neem last year. Should have done more.
I sprayed yesterday and today again with a soap/neem/alcohol spray. It looks like an almost insurmountable problem though... It's a lot to spray every tree especially being diligent to get under all the leaves...
My plan is to never use a systemic like bayer again (did that 2 yrs ago and I think that started the issue.)
I also plan to spray with the soap/neem/alcohol spray every 4 days or so until I think it's better.

I'm not really asking a specific question but just wanted to voice my frustration. It looks like there's been a quite a bit of damage and it looks like I got a lot of work ahead of me.

Curious why I don't see anything on the junipers...

Also curious if I should spray everything even the ones that don't look infected.
Also wondering if anyone has seen the new shoots having the new buds look dead due to this or if that's another issue.

Ian
 

edprocoat

Masterpiece
Messages
3,423
Reaction score
378
Location
Ohio/Florida
USDA Zone
6
It is curious that the junipers are not affected? Along with your treatment a good hosing with a stiff spray of water sets the mites back considerably. I am not saying use the jet spray but a good pressure (not enough to knock over your plants) in a fan spray, enough to move the foliage directed underneath and on top the foliage washes them off. I find with regular watering this way I can keep them at bay for the most part, at least in heavy infestation years they do not get out of hand to where they are damaging leaves. This works well for aphids too.

ed
 

iant

Chumono
Messages
525
Reaction score
336
Location
Redwood City, CA
USDA Zone
9B
Just re-read this thread:
http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?10890-spider-mites&highlight=spider+mites
Forgot about that one!
This was when I suspected the problem... Unfortunately I didn't follow through with regular treatments last year and now it's worse. Rob's last comment on the other thread was 'it seems like all I do is spray!" I'm certainly feeling that way tonight!

Ian
 

Beng

Omono
Messages
1,279
Reaction score
51
Location
Los Angeles, CA
USDA Zone
10b
http://bit.ly/OUqaTs

This regimen is one of the best. Spray every 3-4 days for 2 weeks changing insecticides every single time. The mites won't know what hit them. Plan to finish with forbid if possible.
 

JudyB

Queen of the Nuts
Messages
13,751
Reaction score
23,250
Location
South East of Cols. OH
USDA Zone
6a
Just wondering why you think that the systemic is responsible for the outbreak?
Also I have been told that each mite is specie specific, so that means you have a bunch of different kinds. What would have brought that many different kinds into your collection?
 

bonsaibp

Omono
Messages
1,560
Reaction score
1,309
Location
Northridge CA
USDA Zone
10a
The Bayer is known to kill predators of mites sometimes causing a mite problem while killing off other pests. They also make a Insect, Disease and Mite Control which works well. It is important to change up products for mites though they build a resistance quickly. Also when I treat for mites I do it once weekly for 3 weeks that seems to work.
 

Poink88

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
8,968
Reaction score
119
Location
Austin, TX (Zone 8b)
USDA Zone
8b
Try the milk spray. ;)

1/2 liquid milk (doesn't matter what type or brand)
1/2 water
1-2 pumps of dishwashing liquid (not anti-bacterial)

Mix in a liter spray and go to town. Plants will smell nice too. I do not bother protecting the soil (or myself) either. :cool:

Leaves will become a bit shiny as the solution dries. In a day or so, you will see the milk film start to peel off. Just leave it and it will be gone in another few days. DO NOT wash it off.

The milk's lactic acid supposedly eats through the insect's exoskeleton and kills them. Not sure if that is the real action but I swear it worked wonder in killing most pests I have, including spider mites and aphids.

BTW, I re-treat after 10 days - 2 weeks. Not sure if it is necessary but just do it.

In a week, I will be spraying my plants.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: GGB

Cadillactaste

Neagari Gal
Messages
16,262
Reaction score
20,886
Location
NE Ohio: zone 4 (USA) lake microclimate
USDA Zone
5b
These pesky critters...are on my tropical hibiscus tree. Since it's winter temps in spring here in Ohio. We have given it a shower the past two weeks. (Because it's to large to get it under the kitchen sink faucet) I've seen no signs of them...but...will again douse them it in the shower again next weekend. Making sure to get under the leaves. I heard three treatments of this will work. But...may do four just to be safe.

Hoping this works,since I do not wish to spray chemicals indoors.
 

GrimLore

Bonsai Nut alumnus... we miss you
Messages
8,502
Reaction score
7,452
Location
South East PA
USDA Zone
6b
Old school recipe -

Isopropyl Alcohol & Water. The stuff at the store is normally 50% and I used to mix it 50/50 with water. Have not needed it in PA but in NY I did that several times and it seemed to work quickly like 1 or 2 applications. I do not know if it is needed but I cover the substrate when I have to spray with most anything.

Grimmy
 

october

Masterpiece
Messages
3,444
Reaction score
325
Location
Massachusetts
Sorry to hear this. The Bonide All Seasons Horticultural oil concentrate works incredibly well against scale and mites. Just mix it with a gallon of water (read label for quantities) and you are ready to go. I already pre sprayed pesticide and fungicide. Normally I do not pre spray pesticide. However, I am not taking any chances this year. You will need to spray everything about 2 - 3 times about 3 weeks apart. That should handle it.

Also, this oil will change the color of junipers, especially procumbens junipers. Shimpaku, not so much. Not a bad change, but it is a change. It sometiems looks a little funny because the new growth will be a little different color. Eventually, everything blends though. The oil is great becasue you mix it yourself, it is not that toxic and you can spray safely when temps are like mid 30's to upper 80's. Also, after the spray has been on your trees for a couple of days, give them all a good washing from hose to wash the pesticide off and to remove more mites. It is also a good idea that the trees are not exposed to hot, direct sun after spraying. It is not good that the new growth has been affected. Your trees will survive, but you might be put back a couple years or so as far as styling and designs. Good luck and keep us posted.

Rob
 

iant

Chumono
Messages
525
Reaction score
336
Location
Redwood City, CA
USDA Zone
9B
Decided to go with Beng's advice.
I'm going to spray for 2-3 wks every 4 days or so alternating Avid with Floramite and Forbid. Hopefully that will do it and then I can go back to using milder methods like soap and oil after the population is knocked down. I purchased 1/2 oz quantities from the guy that had the ebay site that Beng recommended: http://www.dustinsuniqueitems.com/apps/webstore/
It's cheaper to buy direct from him than through his store on Ebay.
I'll keep you posted. Thanks for the good thoughts!
These little mites are so bad because they're just small enough not to see but can cause a whole lot of damage.
Ian
 

Beng

Omono
Messages
1,279
Reaction score
51
Location
Los Angeles, CA
USDA Zone
10b
Will definitely work, good choice at not chancing it. After the intense rotation for 2-3 weeks you can back off to once a month rotating unless you have a flare up which probably wont happen unless your neighbors are breeding them. My next spray is in about 2 weeks with Avid. My plan has been if I have a flareup in between the monthly spraying i'll hit it with neem or volck but since I used the strong 2 week rotation i haven't had a single flare up this year. I think this combo may be the best there is. I found it on a marijuana growing site about a year ago and those guys tend to know what they're talking about.
 
Messages
1,954
Reaction score
1,381
Location
Coastal S.C.
USDA Zone
8b
I've mentioned this a couple of times on here, but i found a silicon supplement to have solved my spider mite problem for my tropicals this season. I did apply neem twice and then started with the protekt and the mites never came back. It does leave a white residue after a while, but nothing some rain water over the summer won't cure. Recently I did notice some scale snuck in at some point, but at least I can scrape those off.
 

iant

Chumono
Messages
525
Reaction score
336
Location
Redwood City, CA
USDA Zone
9B
Update:
I think the spray I did with dilute dish soap, Neem, and alcohol burned some new spring leaves. It burned the trident, prunus, chaenomeles, alpine willow, Stewartia, and malus. It didn't seem to harm the acer palmatum, manzanita, seiju elm, cedrus, carpinus, azalea, gingko, ficus, punica, buxus, birch, wisteria, cotoneaster, redwood, juniper, or quercus.
Some of the leaves just got soft and wilty and then turned gray after the homeopathic treatment. Mites might have been held back a bit but there were still lots and I saw eggs and juveniles (2 spotted) still under leaves. I think this might have worked if I'd started doing this earlier but given the level of infection and the fact that the new leaves on my plants don't seem to like this treatment I'm glad I've moved on to something stronger for now. Once it's all controlled I'm hoping to go back to a dormant spray and perhaps occasional insecticidal soap/oil.
6 days ago I sprayed Avid and Floramite mixed together and plants all tolerated it well.
2 days ago still tons of little red adult spider mites running along the surfaces of the tile in the backyard.... I didn't really check the plants. Just noticed they were still all over the yard.
Today I sprayed again Avid and Floramite (plants only.)
In 5-7 days I'll spray Forbid 4F. I used the link that Beng suggested to get a small amount of the 3 (Avid, Floramite and Forbid 4F.)
One thing I'm wondering is how this is going to work as I assume I'm going to kill all the mites on my pre-bonsai trees but I'm wondering about all the little buggers running around on the other surfaces outside. I swear on the tile near the BBQ (about 5 feet from my plants) there are little red mites every 6 inches running around. I squashed over 30 with my finger in 10 minutes and none of them were on my plants.
There's also plants in the yard (I rent by the way) that aren't mine that are more tropicals that for all I know might have some mites too...

Well.... thanks for listening to my rant! I'm just going to not worry about the hard surfaces in the yard and not worry about the landlord's plants (I can't see webbing but who knows.) I'll just finish the every 5-7 days for 2 wks spraying my plants and then go to once a month alternating and I think things should turn out well. I'm not worried.
Just wanted to share my experience,
Ian
 
Last edited:

Beng

Omono
Messages
1,279
Reaction score
51
Location
Los Angeles, CA
USDA Zone
10b
I wouldn't use 2 at the same time. You should rotate the 3 one every 3 days if the problem is bad for 2 weeks. You don't want the mites to build up a resistance to one thus rotating the 3. You shouldn't see any live mites on your trees if you do it right. Unfortunately yes you need to spray the ground around your trees, plants around your trees, walls, objects, and so on otherwise they'll come back quickly. Done right you can taper off to a once a month spray after 2 weeks. Next time spray with Forbid, then 3 days later Avid, then 3 days later floramite, repeat that 2 times then taper off to every 2 weeks, then taper off to once a month. You can do an occasional spray with neem as well if you want can only help. ;) best of luck killing the little buggers!
 

october

Masterpiece
Messages
3,444
Reaction score
325
Location
Massachusetts
Killing mites does not require harsh or multiple pesticides. Being observant is your greatest defense. All you need is horticultual oil and a good blast from the hose. However, you must keep an eye on your trees, the second you see damage you need to spray. Also, you can spray at different times during seasons just in case.

There is one important piece of information to remember. Using something highly toxic instead of something mild really won't make much difference in the long haul. If you wipe out all the pests from using something toxic that does not mean you are set forever. Trees are outside and there will always be the chance that they will come back. Checking your trees at least every couple of days should ensure that you have a handle on things.

Rob
 

Paradox

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
9,339
Reaction score
11,410
Location
Long Island, NY
USDA Zone
7a
If I recall correctly, you've posted about problems with spider mites before?
If they are really a recurring problem, then just realize that you are going to have it evey year and keep that in mind every spring. Knowing that it will always be a problem, do some preventative treatments in early spring every year to save yourself and your trees the aggravation.
 

thams

Omono
Messages
1,023
Reaction score
1,542
Location
Roswell, GA
USDA Zone
7b
Just to share my experiences -- for a good six months I couldn't figure out why all my trees decided to stop growing. They didn't look particularly unhealthy, but just stagnant. I didn't pay much attention since I figured they were slowing down because of the winter sunlight not being as strong. I went away for a week and when I can back a willow leaf ficus has dropped every single leaf. It was only when I looked really closely did I see that the tiny new leaves on my other trees were shriveled and blackened from damage. All tips were still green, without looking closely enough I thought everything was fine.

As a bonsai novice, this was my first run-in with serious mites. Now I'm sure to spray my trees down every month alternating between Neem and standard insecticidal soap. So far so good. Thankfully the ficus lived and is recovering nicely. Lesson learned.
 

iant

Chumono
Messages
525
Reaction score
336
Location
Redwood City, CA
USDA Zone
9B
Thank you Rob and Paradox for your thoughts. Thams experience was very similar to mine. I'd much rather use milder stuff but you're right that I didn't pay close enough attention and catch it early. There was an active infection going all last summer that I let slip under the radar. Now that I look back all of the signs were there. In the future I'm going to go for nicer simpler treatments as prevention in the winter and early spring.
Beng: I did a combination of Avid and Floramite because Avid is not active against eggs. I'm going to change to single applications after this, however. I also did Avid back to back because that's what UCD IPM recommends. They recommend using it paired and then rotating after the 2nd use (partly because it doesn't work against the eggs and you have to let them hatch and retreat 1 wk later.) I'll rotate from here out and decrease interval to monthly if I get them controlled.
http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/r734400111.html

Ian
 
Last edited:

Beng

Omono
Messages
1,279
Reaction score
51
Location
Los Angeles, CA
USDA Zone
10b
Killing mites does not require harsh or multiple pesticides. Being observant is your greatest defense. All you need is horticultual oil and a good blast from the hose. However, you must keep an eye on your trees, the second you see damage you need to spray. Also, you can spray at different times during seasons just in case.

There is one important piece of information to remember. Using something highly toxic instead of something mild really won't make much difference in the long haul. If you wipe out all the pests from using something toxic that does not mean you are set forever. Trees are outside and there will always be the chance that they will come back. Checking your trees at least every couple of days should ensure that you have a handle on things.

Rob

I agree on the east coast this is true but out here in southern california I don't believe it is. Spider mites are a serious pest in our area and you can't control them with horticulture oil and a hose alone. Well I guess if you were blasting your plants a few times a day with the hose it may be effective though. I could be wrong but, I don't think any southern californian bonsai enthusiasts will disagree with me on the use of serious chemicals to control mites here. When I lived on the east coast all i used was neem oil and maybe one systemic a year. Here in southern california with the winds blowing them around all the time they are a problem. I think it's a coastal/climate difference.
 
Top Bottom