Mallsai to Bonsai?

pback

Mame
Messages
111
Reaction score
222
Location
Manhattan, KS
USDA Zone
6a
So my first move into bonsai was taken about 6 months ago when I bought one of your generic, ugly ficus off the clearance shelf at Walmart. Since then I have learned a tremendous amount about what a bonsai actually is and how to develop it. During this time, my little mallsai went through ups and downs as I basically just tried to learn how to keep it alive. Now I would like to take it from where it is and attempt to make an actual bonsai out of it. It currently looks like this...

B14064AA-5805-4893-A3A2-4F1962481260.jpeg

It used to look like this before I put it in potting soil and overwatered it and it decided to repay me by dropping all of the leaves and branches it came with and rotted off a third of those big ugly roots for good measure. Black markups are of what used to be...62297808-3AE1-4F4D-9077-A816AFBA85C2.jpeg
 

pback

Mame
Messages
111
Reaction score
222
Location
Manhattan, KS
USDA Zone
6a
Since then, I’ve gotten it to recover and stabilize fairly well, even push a little bit of new growth despite being taken inside for winter. Now that I have just enough knowledge to be dangerous, I’ve been looking at ways to actually develop it. This was my plan, but I would really love to hear any thoughts as this is the first time I’ve thought about any type of tree development.

7F583AFC-2A5C-40FE-B4E6-5F49FBF5A749.jpeg

I’m thinking that if I chop right where the reverse taper ends I could get rid of the ugly ginseng looking roots and have a decent taper in what’s left. Then by carving down the part above the new growth and using it as a new leader I could further develop taper and introduce some movement in the trunk.

It’s a cheap Walmart plant and my first effort, but it seemed like a perfect chance to practice without breaking something I would really be upset about.

Thoughts anyone?
 

pback

Mame
Messages
111
Reaction score
222
Location
Manhattan, KS
USDA Zone
6a
Beyond design ideas, are there any other concerns I’m not considering? Can I expect the chopped upper piece to root easily (I think it’s a ficus retusa)? Do I need to prune any of the new growth first? Is it ok to do now even though it’ll be inside through winter or should I wait until spring or summer and it’s growing more vigorously outside?
 

Carol 83

Flower Girl
Messages
11,120
Reaction score
27,117
Location
IL
My brother gave me an awful Wal-mart ginseng ficus he got for free, from a lady he worked with at the time. I really hated it, so I chopped off most of the tubes, and planted it deep into a regular terra cotta flower pot. The top was really straggly, so I cut it way back also. It recovered well from the butchery that summer and made it through the winter indoors. I kept pruning this summer, while it was growing strongly, and it continues to improve into something I don't hate anymore. I don't have much experience with ficus, but it seems to be doing OK. Just trying to say they can survive some drastic measures. However, I would wait until it's outside, this spring/summer, growing strong before doing anything else to it. Best of luck with it.
 

pback

Mame
Messages
111
Reaction score
222
Location
Manhattan, KS
USDA Zone
6a
My brother gave me an awful Wal-mart ginseng ficus he got for free, from a lady he worked with at the time. I really hated it, so I chopped off most of the tubes, and planted it deep into a regular terra cotta flower pot. The top was really straggly, so I cut it way back also. It recovered well from the butchery that summer and made it through the winter indoors. I kept pruning this summer, while it was growing strongly, and it continues to improve into something I don't hate anymore. I don't have much experience with ficus, but it seems to be doing OK. Just trying to say they can survive some drastic measures. However, I would wait until it's outside, this spring/summer, growing strong before doing anything else to it. Best of luck with it.
When you say chopped the tubes, is that the same as what I was thinking about doing? If so, did you do anything special to get the top section to root?
 

Carol 83

Flower Girl
Messages
11,120
Reaction score
27,117
Location
IL
When you say chopped the tubes, is that the same as what I was thinking about doing? If so, did you do anything special to get the top section to root?
It is the same as you are thinking about doing. But keep in mind, I thought of mine as disposable, so was pretty brutal. Maybe a little rooting hormone would help. Does that metal pot have any drainage holes?
 

pback

Mame
Messages
111
Reaction score
222
Location
Manhattan, KS
USDA Zone
6a
Does that metal pot have any drainage holes?

It has one big drainage hole in the bottom. I also have a ramshackle collection of random pots, including a few actual (but cheap) bonsai pots, of different sizes, so I could pit up or down a few sizes if it would help.
 

Carol 83

Flower Girl
Messages
11,120
Reaction score
27,117
Location
IL
I wouldn't do anything else to it now. Let it recover. At least there is some drainage. Be careful with the watering, that soil looks really wet. Maybe one of the resident ficus experts will chime in, just trying to help a little.
 

TN_Jim

Omono
Messages
1,972
Reaction score
2,442
Location
Richmond VA
USDA Zone
7a
I had an office mate that had one of these in her window for awhile.

She gave it to me and at home we admired it as the butt tree. Was rotund.

I started experimenting with it because of reading of ficus vigor...and because I thought it was ugly yet attractive in its butt light.

I tried ground layering the butt off, told family I wouldn’t kill the butt tree, I cut it to produce new buds, overwater/under/neglect.. I can relate to @Carol 83 i think.

Somewhere, I think here, I read that these are often two species, one grafted onto another, onto the butt ficus.

microcarpa & retusa...something such I should know

Point is if this is the case, the butt ficus will always be tuberous in its trunk....it may just naturally revert back to the same morphology

..if you grow out the branches, take cuttings from branches ->rooting hormone dip from Lowe’s whatever —> roots-> bind them together as one with some movement (wire) -larger pot & some kinda bonsai mix -> acclimate to full sun quickly...

I ended up killing the lower half from separate experiments...if I hadn’t, I wouldn’t have disappointed family, but over the summer cuttings fused...

this was from last winter till now, 5-6 cuttings...

If you want to do this, just love it in the sun and let it it get big, and try not kill the butt. Our butt could have produced many more cuttings.
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
32,908
Reaction score
45,579
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
Not now.....but I'd layer it at that spot.

You got the right idea for sure!

You made an excellent plan with what you have, I think the only thing could make it better is an angled cut\layer at that spot, for movement directly at soil exit.

Sorce
 

Carol 83

Flower Girl
Messages
11,120
Reaction score
27,117
Location
IL
Such a quotable quote.

That guy came off of your butt? So, my butt could be my own little ficus factory? I like the sound of that.
The cuttings I took off mine, were the only cuttings of any kind, I have gotten to take.
 

pback

Mame
Messages
111
Reaction score
222
Location
Manhattan, KS
USDA Zone
6a
You made an excellent plan with what you have, I think the only thing could make it better is an angled cut\layer at that spot, for movement directly at soil exit.

Thanks!

I hadn’t thought to do that, but now that you mention it, that would give it exactly what I’m hoping for. That is what I’ll do.
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
14,182
Reaction score
22,179
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
Since then, I’ve gotten it to recover and stabilize fairly well, even push a little bit of new growth despite being taken inside for winter. Now that I have just enough knowledge to be dangerous, I’ve been looking at ways to actually develop it. This was my plan, but I would really love to hear any thoughts as this is the first time I’ve thought about any type of tree development.

View attachment 222215

I’m thinking that if I chop right where the reverse taper ends I could get rid of the ugly ginseng looking roots and have a decent taper in what’s left. Then by carving down the part above the new growth and using it as a new leader I could further develop taper and introduce some movement in the trunk.

It’s a cheap Walmart plant and my first effort, but it seemed like a perfect chance to practice without breaking something I would really be upset about.

Thoughts anyone?
You're confusing "chopping" a trunk and air layering a trunk. Both are drastically different. In the case of chopping, you are after the portion of the trunk BELOW the chop (in this case you'd do a chop IF you wanted to KEEP those ugly roots and inverse taper. You would AIR LAYER the top of this if you want to keep the top and the new growth--however, air layering is much more difficult to do.

Don't believe people who offhandedly say it's a good option. It is, IF you're successful. As a beginner, you're probably not going to be.

For now, you will have your hands full simply getting the plant to live and learn how to care for it. Any advanced design plans should be put on hold at least until mid-summer.

BTW, you might want to insure your soil isn't staying soggy --watering takes YEARS to learn to do properly and is the primary cause of bonsai death for beginners. Also get rid of the tray underneath the pot. It's useless and could lead to soggy soil conditions...
 
Messages
1,095
Reaction score
2,158
Location
Tennessee
USDA Zone
7a
I had an office mate that had one of these in her window for awhile.

She gave it to me and at home we admired it as the butt tree. Was rotund.

I started experimenting with it because of reading of ficus vigor...and because I thought it was ugly yet attractive in its butt light.

I tried ground layering the butt off, told family I wouldn’t kill the butt tree, I cut it to produce new buds, overwater/under/neglect.. I can relate to @Carol 83 i think.

Somewhere, I think here, I read that these are often two species, one grafted onto another, onto the butt ficus.

microcarpa & retusa...something such I should know

Point is if this is the case, the butt ficus will always be tuberous in its trunk....it may just naturally revert back to the same morphology

..if you grow out the branches, take cuttings from branches ->rooting hormone dip from Lowe’s whatever —> roots-> bind them together as one with some movement (wire) -larger pot & some kinda bonsai mix -> acclimate to full sun quickly...

I ended up killing the lower half from separate experiments...if I hadn’t, I wouldn’t have disappointed family, but over the summer cuttings fused...

this was from last winter till now, 5-6 cuttings...

If you want to do this, just love it in the sun and let it it get big, and try not kill the butt. Our butt could have produced many more cuttings.


I have had no desire to grow a "Ginseng" Ficus until now. I sort of want a Butt ficus now just for the references I can make.
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
32,908
Reaction score
45,579
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
I have had no desire to grow a "Ginseng" Ficus until now. I sort of want a Butt ficus now just for the references I can make.

Your Name insinuates you may have started with, have many of, or even love, what I call the "Wal-Mart Ficus"!

Git Dat Ass!

Sorce
 
Messages
1,095
Reaction score
2,158
Location
Tennessee
USDA Zone
7a
Your Name insinuates you may have started with, have many of, or even love, what I call the "Wal-Mart Ficus"!

Git Dat Ass!

Sorce

Haha, actually its a name reflecting my lack of creativity for online handles. Literally looked at a picture on the wall and thought "cheap walmart art" was a unique enough moniker that it wont be taken across forums.

It was only afterwards that I purchased a couple of wal-mart trees :)
 

pback

Mame
Messages
111
Reaction score
222
Location
Manhattan, KS
USDA Zone
6a
I have had no desire to grow a "Ginseng" Ficus until now. I sort of want a Butt ficus now just for the references I can make.
I think the proper name is “ficuseng microretusa”, but I’ll need to double check my sources :p
 

pback

Mame
Messages
111
Reaction score
222
Location
Manhattan, KS
USDA Zone
6a
You're confusing "chopping" a trunk and air layering a trunk. Both are drastically different. In the case of chopping, you are after the portion of the trunk BELOW the chop (in this case you'd do a chop IF you wanted to KEEP those ugly roots and inverse taper. You would AIR LAYER the top of this if you want to keep the top and the new growth--however, air layering is much more difficult to do.

Don't believe people who offhandedly say it's a good option. It is, IF you're successful. As a beginner, you're probably not going to be.

For now, you will have your hands full simply getting the plant to live and learn how to care for it. Any advanced design plans should be put on hold at least until mid-summer.

BTW, you might want to insure your soil isn't staying soggy --watering takes YEARS to learn to do properly and is the primary cause of bonsai death for beginners. Also get rid of the tray underneath the pot. It's useless and could lead to soggy soil conditions...
Thanks! That’s a couple good call outs. I suppose I misspoke when I said “chop”. I guess what I’m really asking about is making the cut there and using the top part as a cutting, albeit a larger than usual one. A couple of articles by Adam Lavigne mentioned having a lot more success doing that with a ficus in particular versus air layering.

I am still pretty hesitant to attempt an air layer on a small tree. I have a number of landscape trees in the yard that have volunteered some sacrifice branches to allow me to practice that skill.
 
Top Bottom