Managing a "leggy" JWP pine

[ysrgrathe]

I'm getting enough (misplaced?) confidence that I want to start looking for a more refined pine so that I can learn more about managing a developed specimen. I've noticed that a lot of the trees that come up for sale tend to be pretty leggy -- they may look great from one forced perspective, but the foliage is very far from the trunk. Am I correct in thinking these trees were allowed to grow without appropriate decandling? Are these sorts of problems "fixable" or are we forced to think about grafting to get lower branches with better ramification?

I'm asking not only so that I can make good decisions about what to buy, but also so that as I develop seedlings I know what kinds of problems to try to prevent before they become unfixable. Thanks!

You may recognize this as a Brussel's import JWP. It is not mine, taken from an eBay photo.

 

[Adair M]

Check out Eric's thread: "A few pine seeds 6 years later".

Otherwise, your question is far too broad in scope.

For decent "learner" JBP, look on eBay for George Muranaka's trees. They usually sell for about $125, and have low branches with starter ramification.

 

[ysrgrathe]

Thanks Adair. I have read through it a couple of times and keep going back to it. I guess my question here is: will using maintenance / back-budding techniques on a pine that looks like this be effective, or will such a tree always have problems (short of grafting new branches)?

Appreciate the tip on starter material too.

 

[0soyoung]

Am I correct in thinking these trees were allowed to grow without appropriate decandling?

No, you are incorrect. Japanese red and black pines can be decandled, but not white. JWP treatment is to pinch (break off part of) the candles in spring and/or partially cut back new shoots after they have hardened (i.e., after the needles sheaths drop). This will tend to induce fascicular budding, but epicormic/back budding rarely ever happens, so the foliage inevitably keeps moving away from the trunk. This makes JWP bonsai very challenging, but the foliage is unequaled in my book. Lots of wiring, bending of branches, and maybe grafting at some point (and probably some screaming and yelling of frustration too).

I really like your tree, btw.
Send me a PM if you are not up for it.

 

[augustine]

Skip the JWP first time around and go for JBP or Scots which are both relatively easy to cultivate and train.

 

[dirk hoorelbeke]

Go for red or black pine when not experienced. White is feminine, so difficult and fussy... but we can't live without.

 

[ysrgrathe]

I picked up this JWP over the summer from Johnny Uchida in Hayward, CA. It was a song, because it isn't in great shape -- you can see it lost a number of branches. I suspect this was stress from importing but I'm not sure. The lower branches are so fine...were these just weak buds that were preserved as the trunk was grown out, or were these likely grafted?

@0soyoung that's not my pine...but it is available on eBay if you are interested. Appreciate the advice and opinion.

 

[Adair M]

Sorry, I misread the thread title, I thought it said "JBP", and then when you posted a white pine I was confused!

These imported JWP are a dwarf variety that produce beautiful foliage. The drawback is they grow very slowly, and they don't backbud very well.

Osoyoung is correct. Don't decandle JWP.

The tree you got from Johnny is a grafted tree. The lower trunk is JBP. You will see there is a place where the trunk becomes abruptly thinner, and smoother. That's where the graft is. Everything beyond that point is JWP.

To answer your question, yes, very often with JWP the only way to get new interior foliage is to graft it back on using scions taken from the same tree. The key is to not ever let it get leggy. They can backbud, just not reliably.

JWP and JBP are managed using different techniques. JBP is much more vigorous and fast growing. It is also very responsive to proper technique. If possible, learn on a JBP then learn JWP. White pines grow so slowly, you'll want mess with them too much. They don't like being messed with. JBP don't mind as much!

 

[dirk hoorelbeke]

My interpretation of the initial post was you were thinking to buy a JWP. Now i see you have a JWP, and it's not in top condition i just want to say be careful. Don't cut until it is healthy. Getting it healthy will require repotting. They don't like wet feet so you might go for a SMALL, higher and not so wide container. Good drainage layer. Often half bare rooting is advised but be cautious, try not to cut or damage roots for now. Not a lot of margin for mistakes. When i see a pine like this i would not buy it unless you get a 70% discount of normal price. Keep us up to date with the progression!

 

[ysrgrathe]

Thanks all for the tips. I will keep the thread updated in the future. I also took the advice and picked up a Muranaka JBP so that I can have something a little easier to learn from as well.