Maple advice

[Rob.t]

Hey there, so I previously posted about my Trident maples and received really good advice, though ultimately I lost them due to the Vegas heat (forgot to move them in the afternoon). Just got this guy in the mail today. Leave pretty dry and had to wire him up because the store sent it in a square usps priority box. So it was pretty much in a circle when I opened the box.

Other than the dry leaves it looks to be pretty healthy. What can I do to perk it back up and bring the color back?

 

[morriganflora]

Best way to restore health and vigour in a tree is to focus on the basics. Giving the right amount of water + oxygen to the roots, letting it grow out new foliage to produce carbohydrates for healing and eventually new growth, fertilising regularly, the fundamentals of care.

 

[Emanon]

Best way to restore health and vigour in a tree is to focus on the basics. Giving the right amount of water + oxygen to the roots, letting it grow out new foliage to produce carbohydrates for healing and eventually new growth, fertilising regularly, the fundamentals of care.

So you wouldn't recommend something advertised to stimulate root growth... like a super bloom type fertilizer high in phosphorus? Or a probiotic type product advertised to stimulate the grow of mycorrhizae fungus (something like Rhizotonic Rooting Stimulator)? Or a product with Vitamin-B1 (like Superthrive or Hormex Vitamin B1 Rooting Hormone Concentrate) that are advertised to prevent "transplant shock"? Is "transplant shock" a thing or is it just fancy advertising speak for repotting at the wrong time of year? (Sort of like how the blueberry industry invented the concept of a "superfood" to sell a product high in antioxidants...) Are all these types of things snake oil when it comes to reviving weak, recently uprooted, plants? Just stick to regular fertilizer?

 

[morriganflora]

So you wouldn't recommend something advertised to stimulate root growth... like a super bloom type fertilizer high in phosphorus? Or a probiotic type product advertised to stimulate the grow of mycorrhizae fungus (something like Rhizotonic Rooting Stimulator)? Or a product with Vitamin-B1 (like Superthrive or Hormex Vitamin B1 Rooting Hormone Concentrate) that are advertised to prevent "transplant shock"? Is "transplant shock" a thing or is it just fancy advertising speak for repotting at the wrong time of year? (Sort of like how the blueberry industry invented the concept of a "superfood" to sell a product high in antioxidants...) Are all these types of things snake oil when it comes to reviving weak, recently uprooted, plants? Just stick to regular fertilizer?

I've seen more recent studies that actually indicate that phosphorus can have a negative effect on roots that have been recently damaged (e.g. transplanting, root pruning).
Mycorrhizae and other soil biology gets hyped up a lot, and I think it really is essential in most modern horticultural and especially agricultural applications, but it's not that important in bonsai, and can even have a negative effect if mismanaged.
Vitamin B1 is a human nutrient, it has no effect on plants. I have no idea how this started as a myth and people believed it but looking it up tells me it originates from confusion with auxins, which will not be useful in a situation like this as they don't stimulate healthy growth in already developed root systems.
Transplant shock is definitely a thing and it just refers to the response a plant has to transplanting. In any specialist industry there's going to be words that mean very different or even just slightly different things than what they mean in regular English, like how a knight in chess is way different from a knight in medieval France. "Shock" in this sense just refers to the physiological reactions that occur within the plant, which are a result of hormonal processes and way too complicated to be worth getting into.
Yeah, they're all kind of snake oil. Botany/horticulture is a super huge field of study despite the fact that it's deeply entwined in all of our lives, so when you're dealing with a massive, uneducated audience the swindlers tend to hit it big. Professionals often use other brands and products from casual users. Sometimes they're not available to the regular person, unfortunately.
My recommendation is stick to regular fertiliser for giving your plants nutrients. All you need to grow a healthy plant is water, sunlight, and nutrients. In that order.

 

[Emanon]

I've seen more recent studies that actually indicate that phosphorus can have a negative effect on roots that have been recently damaged (e.g. transplanting, root pruning).
Mycorrhizae and other soil biology gets hyped up a lot, and I think it really is essential in most modern horticultural and especially agricultural applications, but it's not that important in bonsai, and can even have a negative effect if mismanaged.
Vitamin B1 is a human nutrient, it has no effect on plants. I have no idea how this started as a myth and people believed it but looking it up tells me it originates from confusion with auxins, which will not be useful in a situation like this as they don't stimulate healthy growth in already developed root systems.
Transplant shock is definitely a thing and it just refers to the response a plant has to transplanting. In any specialist industry there's going to be words that mean very different or even just slightly different things than what they mean in regular English, like how a knight in chess is way different from a knight in medieval France. "Shock" in this sense just refers to the physiological reactions that occur within the plant, which are a result of hormonal processes and way too complicated to be worth getting into.
Yeah, they're all kind of snake oil. Botany/horticulture is a super huge field of study despite the fact that it's deeply entwined in all of our lives, so when you're dealing with a massive, uneducated audience the swindlers tend to hit it big. Professionals often use other brands and products from casual users. Sometimes they're not available to the regular person, unfortunately.
My recommendation is stick to regular fertiliser for giving your plants nutrients. All you need to grow a healthy plant is water, sunlight, and nutrients. In that order.

Thanks for that answer! I kind of figured there was no magic cure. Last one that you hear a lot, and I left off, though... What about kelp? No extraordinary benefit? OK, last last one lol... What about molasses?

 

[morriganflora]

What about kelp? No extraordinary benefit?

No idea. Kelp as a trend seems to be dying down from where it was a few years ago. When I started college it was all the rage and even my professors were talking about it. Fads come and go in any community. I think it might be moderately beneficial in some applications. I don't think it's cool enough for me to spend time actually figuring out what it'll do.

 

[Rob.t]

Best way to restore health and vigour in a tree is to focus on the basics. Giving the right amount of water + oxygen to the roots, letting it grow out new foliage to produce carbohydrates for healing and eventually new growth, fertilising regularly, the fundamentals of care.

Thanks, kind of what I figured. Would it be advisable to trim away the dead leaves?
Also out of curiosity as I am still quite a novice. If I were to trim the tree at the trunk to shorten it, would I end up killing it? I did not expect it to be this tall. The description of the seedling was “small”, I expected a 6” to 1’ tall plant not 2 1/2” tall lol.

 

[Pitoon]

In my opinion it's a weak maple that was grown in the shade based on how leggy it is with such few leaves.

Don't take this the wrong way, but if you think that's a healthy maple you really don't know what a healthy maple looks like.

I would seriously considered getting back with whomever you bought that from and ask for a replacement. You mentioning the seller shipping it in a square USPS box is a straight giveaway.

As for the tree at the moment. Move it outside to a shady location, and wait. Keep the substrate moist, not soaking wet. It may bounce back, but as I said it looks very weak.

 

[penumbra]

In my opinion it's a weak maple that was grown in the shade based on how leggy it is with such few leaves.

Don't take this the wrong way, but if you think that's a healthy maple you really don't know what a healthy maple looks like.

I would seriously considered getting back with whomever you bought that from and ask for a replacement. You mentioning the seller shipping it in a square USPS box is a straight giveaway.

As for the tree at the moment. Move it outside to a shady location, and wait. Keep the substrate moist, not soaking wet. It may bounce back, but as I said it looks very weak.

Finally, a voice of reason^^^

 

[penumbra]

Vitamin B1 is a human nutrient, it has no effect on plants

Plants make vitamin B1. It is a major component of chlorophyll.
But believe what you want.

 

[sorce]

that's when I learned maples can read shipping tags.

Post "aha moment" and you too, can forever remember the time you learned this.

Sorce

 

[morriganflora]

Plants make vitamin B1. It is a major component of chlorophyll.
But believe what you want.

It's a product they make, but not a nutrient they need to take up. Please read what I'm saying before trying to correct me.

 

[penumbra]

It's a product they make, but not a nutrient they need to take up. Please read what I'm saying before trying to correct me.

I did read what you said, and it was well stated. Having studied horticulture and botany for the past 60 years, I thought I might offer you some advice. There is plenty of information out there about how B1 effects plant growth. Plants produce what they need when given the proper nutrients. Animals are the secondary beneficiary. Please consider that plants were making B1 and other vitamins 500 million years before before we were here. They literally paved the way for all animal life.
In fairness, I did say believe what you want.

 

[leatherback]

Hi Rob, just put it in a sheltered position. Early morning and late afternoon sun is ok. For the reswt, be carefull in maintaining optimal care. No need to do anything else. In fact, I would recommend that next time you do not wire out a plant. Wiring is stress. Let the plant resettle for a couple of weeks before doing anything.

 

[morriganflora]

Having studied horticulture and botany for the past 60 years, I thought I might offer you some advice. There is plenty of information out there about how B1 effects plant growth.

And having studied horticulture in college for the past 2 years and bonsai for several years I can tell you that this myth was debunked a long time ago.
But in fairness, you did say believe what you want.

 

[Rob.t]

Hi Rob, just put it in a sheltered position. Early morning and late afternoon sun is ok. For the reswt, be carefull in maintaining optimal care. No need to do anything else. In fact, I would recommend that next time you do not wire out a plant. Wiring is stress. Let the plant resettle for a couple of weeks before doing anything.

So would you suggest un doing the wire?

 

[morriganflora]

So would you suggest un doing the wire?

Damage is done to the vascular tissue now. In the process of undoing the wire it's likely you'd do more damage, and you won't make it heal faster by bending it back to the way it was.

 

[Rob.t]

Damage is done to the vascular tissue now. In the process of undoing the wire it's likely you'd do more damage, and you won't make it heal faster by bending it back to the way it was.

Ok thank you. I will keep that in mind if I end up getting a tree like this again.

 

[leatherback]

So would you suggest un doing the wire?

Nah, now it is a matter of leaving it alone as much as possible. Most plants handle transport stuff quite well, if we give them a little time to deal with it.