Daluke
Mame
Looking for help identifying these cultivars please
Maple identifications
- Thread starter Daluke
- Start date
Daluke
Mame
KiwiPlantGuy
Omono
Hi,
Good luck getting an answer, as there are so many that look like yours. I wouldn’t want to take a guess sorry. Would you know the grower? Or be able to contact them?
Charles
Good luck getting an answer, as there are so many that look like yours. I wouldn’t want to take a guess sorry. Would you know the grower? Or be able to contact them?
Charles
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
Sorry @Daluke I don't think it is possible to ID JM varieties from one photo of leaves.
The leaves change color through the year so a single shot is not enough.
Many var also have very similar leaf colours so you also need to know growth habit, size, shape, etc to narrow down the possibilities.
Named varieties must be clones of the parent to use the name. Every seedling is a new mix of genes so, even if it looks similar, there will be other differences that make each seedling unique.
Put simply, if you don't have any evidence that it IS a certain variety then the trees are just Japanese maples. That does not make them inferior. Any nice JM is a nice JM whether it has an existing name or not.
My advice is to enjoy your JM for what they are and don't obsess over names.
The leaves change color through the year so a single shot is not enough.
Many var also have very similar leaf colours so you also need to know growth habit, size, shape, etc to narrow down the possibilities.
Named varieties must be clones of the parent to use the name. Every seedling is a new mix of genes so, even if it looks similar, there will be other differences that make each seedling unique.
Put simply, if you don't have any evidence that it IS a certain variety then the trees are just Japanese maples. That does not make them inferior. Any nice JM is a nice JM whether it has an existing name or not.
My advice is to enjoy your JM for what they are and don't obsess over names.
Daluke
Mame
It’s more of a “bought it and lost labels, then found labels and couldn’t remember which tree was which”.
Daluke
Mame
One was otto hime. I think the red.
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
Van Gelderen describes 'Oto Hime' as:
group 6a A compact shrublet, nevertheless growing vigorously when young. Leaves fresh green turning yellow in fall; petioles exceptionally long.
(group 6a is dwarf types with green leaves)
No mention of red leaves for 'Otto Hime' but many JM leaves open as a different colour then quickly turn to the usual summer colour.
Do either of them have the long petioles mentioned?
Essence of the tree website describes it as :
Otohime is a very strong green upright dwarf. the spring leaves are bright, lively yellow-green with narrow reddish edging and tips. Fall colors are a pleasant yellow to orange. The small leaves have five moderately deeply divided lobes which radiate out like a star. This tree is named after Queen Otohime, the fabled Japanese Queen who reigned at the bottom of an ocean kingdom.
Note the yellow green with reddish edging. Sounds like your first pic rather than the red leaves.
You could also try searching some more specialist JM sites for pics and descriptions
group 6a A compact shrublet, nevertheless growing vigorously when young. Leaves fresh green turning yellow in fall; petioles exceptionally long.
(group 6a is dwarf types with green leaves)
No mention of red leaves for 'Otto Hime' but many JM leaves open as a different colour then quickly turn to the usual summer colour.
Do either of them have the long petioles mentioned?
Essence of the tree website describes it as :
Otohime is a very strong green upright dwarf. the spring leaves are bright, lively yellow-green with narrow reddish edging and tips. Fall colors are a pleasant yellow to orange. The small leaves have five moderately deeply divided lobes which radiate out like a star. This tree is named after Queen Otohime, the fabled Japanese Queen who reigned at the bottom of an ocean kingdom.
Note the yellow green with reddish edging. Sounds like your first pic rather than the red leaves.
You could also try searching some more specialist JM sites for pics and descriptions
Daluke
Mame
Thanks!
I’m told by the grower - red is a seedling from bonfire. The other is muraski kiyohime
I’m told by the grower - red is a seedling from bonfire. The other is muraski kiyohime
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
Certainly glad we solved that one.
SouthernMaple
Chumono
good thing he asked and got an answer that wasn't a waste of time like yours
KiwiPlantGuy
Omono
Hi,
Thank you for pointing this out! I guess my tone, as you read, was poor form.
I won’t hijack this thread anymore. Sorry to the OP.
Charles.
KikurageOtomo
Mame
On the inverse, any amount of visual identification in regards to cultivars is entirely speculation unless you decide to have its genetic makeup analyzed. If you've lost the tag and no longer remember what cultivar a particular specimen is, you're out of luck unless you kept a purchase record or maintain a personal directory of all your material.
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
I think your response was completely appropriate based upon the information you had to work with. The op was lucky the seller had the information. Ans still, a seedling is just a Japanese Maple.
SouthernMaple
Chumono
I completely disagree with this, there are visual clues that the trained eye can identify just like with Junipers, Azaleas and every other plant. Just because you can't identify something doesn't mean someone else can't.
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
The people who can identify a few dozen are rare. And there are thousands.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Tru dat. IDing exact JM cultivars is impossible. You can get in the ballpark or make an educated guess, but you're probably not going to be right, or even close. I know folks at the Nat. Arb who will say the same.
SouthernMaple
Chumono
I find it to be really easy, but I guess I am a rarity
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
If you find it easy you have not seen enough maples. I have 44 cultivars of JM and I couldn't come close to knowing them all by a leaf or other distinguishing feature. To make things more difficult, some of them are so similar that you may see no differentiation in decades......or ever.
Yeah, I'd say you were a rarity.
SouthernMaple
Chumono
i currently am growing 20 different cultivars, I plan to triple that when I build my nursery next year, I also make spreadsheets with pictures of them. I am also creating a master spreadsheet of all the maples I have taken pictures of from the last 14 years from other peoples yards, arboretums, nurseries,etc. I currently have a database of 238 cultivars, I thanks JD Vertrees for my obsession, hopefully one day I will have a book that I can sell to the public.If you find it easy you have not seen enough maples. I have 44 cultivars of JM and I couldn't come close to knowing them all by a leaf or other distinguishing feature. To make things more difficult, some of them are so similar that you may see no differentiation in decades......or ever.
Yeah, I'd say you were a rarity.
andrewiles
Shohin
Dunno, I'm with @penumbra on this one. I have 80 or so different cultivars and while some are consistently very distinctive almost all have doppelgangers that are, at least under some conditions, practically indistinguishable. Consider the leaf texture, size, shape and color variability in a _single_ cultivar based on lighting, temperature, water, fertilizer, time of year and timing of growth flush. Then multiply by the 10s or 100s of cultivars that are superficially similar to that one.
