Maple Root Stock Acting Weird

Saddler

Chumono
Messages
674
Reaction score
819
Location
Vancouver, British Columbia
My Father in law bought this lace leave Acer two years ago. This year the root stock pushed out new growth. Looked like a regular palmatum this spring. Then the leaves all turned upside down with leaf bottoms (now top) all pink. Can anyone help me understand what is going on? The root stock leaves sit in direct sun other then a couple hours around noon when the lace leaf shades it.

IMG_2499.JPG IMG_2500.JPG IMG_2501.JPG
 

rodeolthr

Mame
Messages
111
Reaction score
89
Location
Seattle, WA
USDA Zone
8a
That appears to be heat/drought stress. We have been very dry in this region again this summer. I have been watering all my containerized trees several times a week.
 

ysrgrathe

Shohin
Messages
401
Reaction score
471
Location
CA
USDA Zone
9b
You'd better cut that off asap. Usually the rootstock leaves are much more vigorous and can easily dominate the cultivar.
 

Saddler

Chumono
Messages
674
Reaction score
819
Location
Vancouver, British Columbia
Looks like your plant is very dry. Has it not just wilted?
Nope, not dry and not wilted. It has been growing very well like this for a couple of months.

You'd better cut that off asap. Usually the rootstock leaves are much more vigorous and can easily dominate the cultivar.
I am thinking about leaving them on for the time being and taking cuttings/air layers next year. Its kind of neat and I am curious to see how it will grow on its own.

That appears to be heat/drought stress. We have been very dry in this region again this summer. I have been watering all my containerized trees several times a week.
These trees get water almost daily. My mother in law has a dark shade of green on her thumb and everything in her care seems to thrive. The upper and lower parts of the tree are both very vigorous in growth. If you look at the horizontal branch in the second picture, you can see the leaves are not droopy, but flat and upside down.
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
22,353
Reaction score
29,968
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
Usually the rootstock leaves are much more vigorous and can easily dominate the cultivar.
This is that new fandagled smart rootstock....

You gotta push a button on your tablet to turn the leaves upside down so it don't takeover...

Saddler....you gotta download the app!

Sorce
 

AlainK

Masterpiece
Messages
3,485
Reaction score
5,649
Location
Orléans, France, Europe
USDA Zone
8A
I read somewhere that red lace-leaf cultivars retain their colour better when grafted on red palmatum ('atropurpureum') rootstock.

The colour of the stems and the twigs makes me think that might be the case here.

I would remove them, but try to propate them by cutting...
 

ajm55555

Shohin
Messages
405
Reaction score
306
Location
Stuttgart DE, via Verona/Padova IT, Atlanta GA.
USDA Zone
7b
I don't see anything wrong with the color but I had something similar on my Deshojo with new leaves on many branches apparently suffering and wilting. That might have been caused in my case by excessive fertilization. Eventually they recovered strength and didn't die.
New leaves on JM are very sensitive to sun, lack of water, fertilizers and other factors until they harden off.
 

Saddler

Chumono
Messages
674
Reaction score
819
Location
Vancouver, British Columbia
I don't see anything wrong with the color but I had something similar on my Deshojo with new leaves on many branches apparently suffering and wilting. That might have been caused in my case by excessive fertilization. Eventually they recovered strength and didn't die.
New leaves on JM are very sensitive to sun, lack of water, fertilizers and other factors until they harden off.
Its not the colour that has me perplexed, its that the leaves all grow upside down. Like I said, these are healthy and growing well.
 

Saddler

Chumono
Messages
674
Reaction score
819
Location
Vancouver, British Columbia
This is that new fandagled smart rootstock....

You gotta push a button on your tablet to turn the leaves upside down so it don't takeover...

Saddler....you gotta download the app!

Sorce
Maybe it is an Android only app. I run with iOS crowd. I searched the App Store tree times.
 

drew33998

Masterpiece
Messages
2,023
Reaction score
1,256
Location
Jacksonville, Fl
USDA Zone
8-9
That it one horribly high graft. Who would graft that high up on rootstock.
 

AlainK

Masterpiece
Messages
3,485
Reaction score
5,649
Location
Orléans, France, Europe
USDA Zone
8A
That it one horribly high graft. Who would graft that high up on rootstock.
:rolleyes: :D

Let's be easy on the people who sell them.

The persons that graft these trees are not into bonsai, these trees are meant to be planted in a graden and reach 5, 10, 15 fett after a few years.

Judging from the photo where there's a hand to give the scale, I'd say the grafting point is about 15-20 cm from the soil. When established in a garden, it just doesn't show at all because you admire the canopy which will be about 1.50 metres (5 feet) 1n ten-fifteen years at the best, and twice as wide.

These trees were not made to make bonsai, and anyway, there are very, very few convincing laceleaf bonsai, if any at all.

Laceleaf Acer palmatum make beautiful patio plants...
 

Cadillactaste

Neagari Gal
Messages
12,613
Reaction score
11,710
Location
NE Ohio: zone 5b (USA)
USDA Zone
5b
It's root stock...growth. Cut it off...especially if it's not acting right. Why try and cultivate something that should be removed to begin with. Scratching head over that...not every piece of material needs to be bonsai. Why add additional headache to ones bench!?!
 

Saddler

Chumono
Messages
674
Reaction score
819
Location
Vancouver, British Columbia
It's root stock...growth. Cut it off...especially if it's not acting right. Why try and cultivate something that should be removed to begin with. Scratching head over that...not every piece of material needs to be bonsai. Why add additional headache to ones bench!?!
Because it is unusual. I don't remember saying I would make a bonsai out of it or anything beyond seeing how it would do on its own. I might turn it into a bonsai if there was something worthwhile grown, but for now, I like the unusual and have about fifteen acer cultivar cuttings started. Who knows what I will plant in my dream garden, but I am not going to pay thousands of dollars for grafted landscape trees when I can grow my own and if I so choose, bonsai anything that has real potential along the way. Maybe I am alone here in also enjoying trees as just that, unadulterated trees, so I sincerely agree with you that not every piece of material needs to be bonsai.
 

Saddler

Chumono
Messages
674
Reaction score
819
Location
Vancouver, British Columbia
Just in case anyone was wondering, The tree is not mine and it is not going to be turned into a bonsai. I am just curious if anyone knew anything about why the leaves grow upside down. I find the root stock growth very interesting and have no desire to kill it because it is different or "shouldn't" be there. I will probably take cuttings and leave the growth untouched besides the cuttings for a couple years and move the pot around the their yard to see if different environmental factors come into play. Whats the worst that can happen? the lace leaf acer gets ever so slightly weaker? Ill take it.
 

Cadillactaste

Neagari Gal
Messages
12,613
Reaction score
11,710
Location
NE Ohio: zone 5b (USA)
USDA Zone
5b
Because it is unusual. I don't remember saying I would make a bonsai out of it or anything beyond seeing how it would do on its own. I might turn it into a bonsai if there was something worthwhile grown, but for now, I like the unusual and have about fifteen acer cultivar cuttings started. Who knows what I will plant in my dream garden, but I am not going to pay thousands of dollars for grafted landscape trees when I can grow my own and if I so choose, bonsai anything that has real potential along the way. Maybe I am alone here in also enjoying trees as just that, unadulterated trees, so I sincerely agree with you that not every piece of material needs to be bonsai.
Well...on a bonsai forum...an air layer usually is done for bonsai. You never was clear so ones will assume for bonsai.
Here's something I am curious about...is the humidity high? I know when there is a chance of rain leaves especially maples reach up to the sky upside down. The whispier leaves of the grafted tree may be to airy to do this. Have you glanced about to see if trees in nature are also turning upside down? Reaching for the rain is what my grandpa would say. Most likely not...but It did come to mind.
 

ysrgrathe

Shohin
Messages
401
Reaction score
471
Location
CA
USDA Zone
9b
I'm not sure about the leaves. The reason I would encourage you to remove it is 1) it's already creating an unsightly lump which will rapidly get worse as it grows 2) it may kill the top of the tree when the graft fails. I have a high grafted Tamukeyama that also had a regressive shoot and even several years later the trunk is still marred.
 

Saddler

Chumono
Messages
674
Reaction score
819
Location
Vancouver, British Columbia
Well...on a bonsai forum...an air layer usually is done for bonsai. You never was clear so ones will assume for bonsai.
Here's something I am curious about...is the humidity high? I know when there is a chance of rain leaves especially maples reach up to the sky upside down. The whispier leaves of the grafted tree may be to airy to do this. Have you glanced about to see if trees in nature are also turning upside down? Reaching for the rain is what my grandpa would say. Most likely not...but It did come to mind.
I have not seen a single other tree do this since I noticed this tree doing it. I have been looking. Humidity has been very high to fairly low with no change in the leaves. Rain has been almost non existent for the last couple of months, but like I said, it is never in want of water.
 

Similar threads


Top Bottom