Maple seeds - again!

[AlainK]

Sorry, couldn't find the thread where this video was posted. I tried "seeds", "maple seeds" in the search engine, but too many hits, so: after watching the video, I did the same, just put the seeds in a ziplock bag. They had stayed at least ten days in an enveloppe in my kitchen, so before putting them in a bag, I let them soak for about one day in a glass filled with warm water, slightly dried them again on paper towel, then put the bag in the fridge on December 5th.

Today:



Less than one month and a half! Wow, these must have good genes

These are 'Sango Kaku': the more germinate, the more likely I can get a couple true to the mother-plant, or maybe the odd hybrid.

Thrilling...

 

[AlainK]

...Forgot to show the video - again:

 

[Pitoon]

I've also had JM seeds sprout in less than 45days. The problem is trying to keep them from dying before they give their first set of leaves.

 

[AlainK]

The problem is trying to keep them from dying before they give their first set of leaves.

Yes, that's right.

I had about 80-100 seeds that sprouted last year, I'm sure the most of them are alive. I'll have to choose "the best ones", or the ones that are a bit different. and give away the rest to people who will care.

 

[kobusbonsainut]

Mine are allready growing. After one and a half in the fridge. Other palmatum var. need 3 month.

Sango Kaku is a different type than mine.

 

[rodeolthr]

Sorry, couldn't find the thread where this video was posted. I tried "seeds", "maple seeds" in the search engine, but too many hits, so: after watching the video, I did the same, just put the seeds in a ziplock bag. They had stayed at least ten days in an enveloppe in my kitchen, so before putting them in a bag, I let them soak for about one day in a glass filled with warm water, slightly dried them again on paper towel, then put the bag in the fridge on December 5th.

Today:

Alain,
FWIW, I find that I get about .5-1% of the seeds from Sango Kaku which share the same trait of bright red/coral bark as the mother tree. Now, there could actually be more than that , that germinate, but my experience is that those with the coral colored bark are somewhat slower growing and are perhaps out-paced by the other seedlings and shaded out. I typically grow mine quite densely in the flats (because I have so much seed that I germinate each year) and I find lots of dead seedlings when I separate them to move into better growing conditions.
Kevin

 

[Arlithrien]

There's a video on YouTube of a guy growing Sango kaku seeds and he appears to have gotten a fairly high percentage of red bark seedlings compared to yours.

 

[leatherback]

Mine are allready growing. After one and a half in the fridge. Other palmatum var. need 3 month.

Sango Kaku is a different type than mine.

I think this is a clear example why I do not do the fridge-barrgie-plant jumble. Mine are outside for winter. In spring they will germinate. Outside temperatures and sun intensity will be better balanced, hopeflly leading to shorter stems. I find these look quite stretched.

 

[BonsaiNaga13]

I think this is a clear example why I do not do the fridge-barrgie-plant jumble. Mine are outside for winter. In spring they will germinate. Outside temperatures and sun intensity will be better balanced, hopeflly leading to shorter stems. I find these look quite stretched.

they always balance themselves out after a couple months outside once they start to lignify. the ones i start outdoors vs the ones i start indoors look mostly indistinguishable except the indoor ones are taller and a tad thicker. I planned on exclusively doing outdoors this time with my maples but still had some arakawa sprout early so had to move em to save em from frost.

 

[Shibui]

We tend to get a high proportion of red barked trees from seed of Sangu Kaku but please remember that any tree grown from seed is different from the parent, even if it looks similar. Every seedling is a unique new combination of genes and if it is to be given a name it must have a new, unique variety name.

 

[leatherback]

Every seedling is a unique new combination of genes and if it is to be given a name it must have a new, unique variety name.

Yes and No?

Natural variation is normal within species. A new name is needed only if the youngsters becomes so different from the named species that they effectively cannot interbreed anymore.

And of course, if it has certain marketable traits, people want to name it, so they can claim ownership (So you get a variety name)

 

[Shibui]

A new name is needed only if the youngsters becomes so different from the named species that they effectively cannot interbreed anymore.

This is referring to a new species? We are talking about varieties. Sangu kaku (variety) is a Japanese maple (species) it can interbreed with any other Japanese maple variety.
Every sexually produced individual is unique. We give every human an individual name because they are all different from each other. We give each doberman dog a different name because they are all individuals even though they are all the same doberman breed. Every seedling has the right to an individual name. Mostly we don't bother and just call them the family name which is correct. What is incorrect is to give the sons and daughters the mother's name. seedlings of Sangu Kaku are NOT Sangu kaku because they all have slightly different genetic combinations. They ARE all Japanese maples but are definitely not the same variety. For a plant to breed true from seed we need to line breed for many generations to get rid of off gene combinations and make sure the desired combinations are fixed. that's how our pure bred varieties of domestic animals have been created. Most garden varieties are the result of a single breeding accident and the genes are not stable enough to continue to breed true to type.
Japanese maple varieties already suffer from mis-naming. A. palmatum 'Atropurpureum' is a good example. We now have several slightly different types all sold as A.p 'atropurpureum' because some growers grew seed that looked a bit similar. Now noone knows which is the real 'atropurpureum'.
By all means keep growing seed. just don't give the seedlings the mother's name. They should be labelled as the species - Acer palmatum or given a new, unique variety name to show they are a different individual.

 

[leatherback]

This is referring to a new species? We are talking about varieties.

Which was exactly my point Guess my message was lost in clumsy wording. What you typed out was exactly the point I was trying to make

 

[kobusbonsainut]

Mike Kincaid answerd my question. What to do with the sprouting seeds in the fridge? When they sprout, you can leave them in the fridge till spring. They will not grow much in the fridge, it should not be a problem. Nice to know!

 

[rodeolthr]

While I do get plenty of red-barked seedlings from Sango Kaku, I don't seem to get many that are intensely coral colored. Of course these only make themselves know come winter. I can attribute it as much to the way I raise my seedlings (crowded in flats) as to the fact that I have about 50 different selections of Japanese maples ( including shirawasanum, siebolidianum, and japonicum.....along with the many palmatum)