Marc Torppa / Marc Torpa / Mark Torppa / Mark Torpa @ the Growing Grounds - AVOID

[jersanct]

Please pardon the multiple spellings, but I want to be damn sure that the next person who looks for a review of this guy will find one, no matter how they spell or misspell his name.

There is a very informative thread on bonsainut here: http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?6212-Arakawa-woes(Thanks-UPS)&highlight=torpa . Unfortunately, I didn't see it when I was researching this vendor, because his name was spelled incorrectly in the thread.

I would recommend staying far, FAR away from Marc Torppa at the Growing Grounds. He was pleasant enough as we were discussing a few trees I was considering buying, although I detected a strong smell of b/s from the beginning. I decided to buy a wildly overpriced tree (that he also was misrepresenting), just because I had been looking for something like the tree he had. Big mistake.

He does not accept any modern forms of payment (i.e. credit cards, PayPal)--so I sent a check to him. Bigger mistake. He claims he doesn't accept credit cards or PayPal because nobody ever wanted to use them. Seriously? I now suspect he doesn't accept credit cards or PayPal because it's much easier to get your money back if you use them.

Once my check arrived, it was cashed immediately...and then he went completely AWOL--well, nearly (see below). I now sit here nearly a month after he cashed my check with no tree, no expectation that I ever will receive my tree, no response to any of my email messages first asking then demanding to know what was going on, and no other way to contact him.

If you think that I might just be a difficult person, I would strongly encourage you to read the other thread on this forum that I mentioned/linked above.

Unfortunately, when I tried to find reviews or commentary about him, I didn't find this thread--because they misspelled his name in it as Torpa rather than Torppa. After reading all of that, it sounds like I probably should expect to find my tree and/or its pot broken if it ever arrives, on top of all of the other trouble.

So, just to lay out various parts of my experience in one concise list:

* The only thing that happened smoothly and quickly in the whole experience was when he cashed my check, nearly four weeks ago.
* He stopped answering email messages after he received my check.
* Although he did ignore all of my messages (which sounds like standard practice, judging from the commentary on the bonsanut thread), he did send one random message saying he would ship my tree last Wednesday and would send a tracking number - that never happened.
* I've received emails from at least 2 different addresses for him, maybe more. My guess would be that he is doing this so he can claim that someone must have used an incorrect address while trying to contact him or some other nonsense.
* He doesn't accept credit cards or PayPal - which is just annoying and also makes it very difficult to dispute payment.
* I couldn't find one review for him online--as I said, I didn't see the bonsainut thread, unfortunately. This should have been a warning sign, but I ignored it.
* I only found one other mention of him on any bonsai forum, and it was unclear if the person who mentioned him had ever dealt with him. Another warning sign.
* He has no phone number listed in his contact information; I found two phone numbers for him online, and both have been disconnected.
* I found a yellow pages listing for his company online, and it listed the business as CLOSED.

So, until the bonsainut thread confirmed that he existed at all, I was nearly certain that this was all a big scam. Well, it is kind of like a big scam, in my experience, but at least he and some trees do exist.

Again, I would encourage you to read the other thread on bonsainut - link above. I also would encourage you to share this information with all of your bonsai friends.

I repeat: I RECOMMEND THAT YOU AVOID MARC TORPPA / MARC TORPA / MARK TORPPA / MARK TORPA @ THE GROWING GROUNDS.

 

[tater]

I would suggest calling the local police department, I think this falls under something like mail fraud which is a federal crime.

 

[raydomz]

Were you ever able to get anything squared away?

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

Yeah, I'm interested too. What happened?

 

[Bill S]

Have you tried your own bank to regain payment?? Not sure if anything may be available but worth a shot.

I think I saw somewhere he was selling the "Growing Grounds".

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

Still no update?

 

[tree guy]

Hi all, marc with The Growing Grounds here. wanted to post about the above thread.

yes, I had a customer this spring who ordered a bonsai normally and payment was sent. After the check clears, I write the customer for permission to ship. I never got a response from two emails. Not unusal as folks go on vacation or the computer breaks down. I HOLD trees all the time for customers so no problem. After the second email to gain permission to ship but no response an email comes in asking if the same tree is for sale. I said NO, it has been bought but not shipped, cant get ahold of the guy. Another email comes in from the customer same day, saying to ship and I did. Seems it was the same guy both emails and was apparently using several email accounts. I explained to him why I did not ship and told of the two emails I sent asking for permission. Anyway, I always ship my trees, never missed a one!!!!!!!!! BUT I MUST HAVE PERMISSION TO SHIP. Now I must say I had email problems off and on for 6 weeks due to a trojan horse at this time. Customers knew there was a problem because they got the same return mail warnings I was getting. THANKS to AT&T for finding the problem with Time Warner Cable Road Runner.

As for payment here, I have accepted credit dards here for 14 yrs. During the recent financial times across the States, nobody used the card service for 3 yrs... so I decided to cancel the service. Not many seem to mind. Getting older with health problems so life/biz is kept simple. Less expensive for customers also.

I tried allowing visitors but seems some make appointments but never show up. Phone calls for 8 yrs late at night asking me questions like if I rotate a tree under a light 24 hrs a day will the bark start to twist..... heart problems canned the phone, now email only unless a phone is just flat out needed.

Yes there are 2000 trees here, I ship close to 100 trees a yr all over the USA and Porta Rico. UPS has a good record here. 5 trees damaged in 15 yrs. I covered all of them myself at my expense and never asked for a dime. I protect my customers as I would want them to protect me. I've traveled the bonsai lecture circuit for many yrs as a vendor while my father lectured. Most people in bonsai know me.

Some say the trees are expensive. Well, grow a tree for 14 yrs, a good tree now, no junk. Work it every yr- hard. Then pay $44K in cash for the land to grow it on. Pay all the overhead, irrigation systems ,greenhouses etc. Now, if its a good tree, how much would you sell it for?

Anyway, thanks for your time reading, I always take care of my customers. Always. thank you m-

 

[Adair M]

Marc,

I'm glad you came on here, to at least say you care.

If I may, I'd like to give some advice on running your business.

I buy 3 or 4 bonsai trees a year. Decent stuff. I'm the customer you are after. I recognise quality and I'll pay for it, within reason.

I have not purchased anything from you. I have, however, made inquiries. You have not shown any interest in developing me as a customer.

To wit:

Your website. On the face of it, it's attractive. Lots of trees, nice photos. But, when I really start to search for something, most everything has a "sold" banner on it. Very few, 20% maybe, are available. Now, I can understand having the "sold" logo on for a little while. It's to create an urgency in the buyer that stuff is getting purchased, and if I wait, it might be gone. That's fine. But you do it to the extreme, and it's insulting to have the same trees on there for several years with the "sold" logo.

Then, on your front page, you state that you just got a huge shipment of trees in, "Email for photos". So, I did. You sent me back an email, telling me to look in the listings to see if there was anything I liked. Huh? There's new trees there? Where? The sames ones that have been there for 6 months with the "new" logo are still there. And they were maybe 5 of those. Why say "email for photos" if you're not going to do it?

Look, I think the general consensus is you have great trees. It's your customer service that's the issue. Like it or not, you are in the retail business, the SPECIALTY retail business, and that is a very personal thing. Your customers are spending big bucks, and for that they expect, and deserve special attention.

My advice for you is to get someone else to do the customer service part of your business. If you want to work the trees, do so. But get someone else to answer the phone, do the emails, process payments, manage the shipping, keep the website updated, etc. I expect if you did so, your volume would increase from 100 trees per year to 200 or 300. And, hopefully, be better for your health. From your response above, it is apparant that customer service is stressful for you.

Please don't feel insulted by this post. It is well intentioned. I would much prefer to see your business be successful, and have people raving about how they loved the trees they received from you. The bonsai community is small, and negative experiences are far more damaging to your reputation in a small community. You can fix it, and you and the bonsai community would both be the better for it.

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

Puerto Rico*

 

[JudyB]

tree guy,
I'm also the type of customer that you'd want. I do not live near any bonsai nurseries, but have a fairly decent collection.... with a few exceptions, all bought online. I will and have paid for quality trees.

But I have heard some pretty bad stuff from folks who have purchased from you. Not just this account. (Of which I would like to see what jersanct's view of the outcome of this particular issue was.)
As far as taking care of shipping damage, I've heard much to the contrary. And also from the description of the packaging techniques you use, I'm not surprised that damage occurs on your shipped trees. In fact, I'm surprised that you have not had more incidences of damage, if indeed 5 in 15 years is accurate.

I agree with Adair on his assessment of your customer service ethics and manners. Looks like you have some nice trees, but I can't say that I'd be tempted in gambling on the outcome of a purchase.

If you truly care about setting the record straight, then I'd take a look at how you do business, and contact those who feel that you've wronged them, I'm sure you know who they are.

 

[Adair M]

Marc,

Take a quick look at this thread on this forum:

http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?8451-Yamadori-shohin-spruce&p=105633#post105633

Here's a guy, who has bought a tree, and I'm sure it was an expensive tree, who is quite happy with his purchase and the vendor who sold it to him. In fact, on another bonsai forum, the vendor gave him some aftercare advice.

Now, I'm a bonsai buyer. The next time the urge to buy a bonsai overcomes my common sense, who do you think I'm going to contact? You? Or the vendor in the link?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Marc,
I'm also one of those customers you're after. I've done it for a long time, and will spend a little more than average when I find just the right thing, and frankly, your website shows some incredible trees. I've contacted you a couple times over the years and haven't had a reply. As much as I'd love to buy one of your trees (even had a couple JBP and arakawa maples mentally picked out), I'm risk-averse and will stick with the guys I've had excellent customer service experiences with.

The opportunity to walk through the nursery and do a cash and carry would remove the risk, but the website clearly sends a message that you don't want to see people or talk to them, leaving email as the only option...which unfortunately didn't work out for me.

I sincerely hope business is good for you, because the trees on your site demonstrate you have a good eye and horticultural skills. I also hope the customer service aspect improves, as it could only do good for your business... I know I'd certainly rather include your nursery as an option the next time I go tree shopping.

Regards,
BVF

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

Working in a customer service atmosphere (take that as you will...I don't enjoy the business aspect of it, but I love helping people out), I've learned one important thing: If someone has a good experience with a company, depending on how good it was, they might tell a few or a lot of people. However, if someone has a bad experience, again depending on how significant the experience is, they'll tell everyone they can. This is extremely amplified when it comes to the internet because if the crowd is big enough, the word gets around a lot faster. That being said, I'm sure many people have had great experiences with Marc, but we've seen only the bad side of it.

Not to get too attached to either side of this debate (if you'd call it that), I think it'd safe to say that damage during shipping does happen and is sometimes unavoidable. Miscommunication happens, but certainly there are ways to remedy this -- and this is when phone calls are necessary. Now, as Marc said, he's growing older and has had negative experiences with people contacting him (which I can empathize with), but that seems to be the name of the game with it comes to this type of operation.

Brian has a great point. While the trees Marc offers do appear to be quality trees, that whole customer service aspect seems like it could be improved. The fact that an unreturned email isn't followed up with at least a phone call raises some pretty bright red flags for me.

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

And honestly...those trees on the website are appealing. It pains me to force myself to shop elsewhere after seeing some of these. lol -- Maybe I'll do a little experiment when I get some spare cash and report back.

 

[edprocoat]

In all fairness guys, the person who complained here has never bothered to follow up on his complaint here, either to say he was ripped off, or that he received his product. Being a small business owner for over 30 years and being well used to dealing with people this inaction on the man complaining says too me he received his product and does not have the decency to admit he jumped the gun. I have had customers call me 25 times before complaining that I never answer the phone during teh course of one morning, yes just over 5 hours , during which time I was completing another job. When I returned the call and told them I would be there in 15 minutes to rectify the situation, the customer was happy, yet he still told his neighbor several weeks later he called me dozens of times before I returned his call. Fortunately his neighbor knew him well and asked him how long it took me to get back with him, and his answer of 5 hours impressed the neighbor enough to give me the job and then to give me a rehab on an apartment building he owned too. Some people you can not deal with rationally as they are not rational and expect too much, others are self important and expect their ass kissed while they are rude. Thankfully most people are decent. In my opinion if this man who started this thread was ripped off he would be back here whining like and old woman, he probably does not have the balls to come back and admit he was wrong.

ed

 

[BonsaiJim]

I had a recent dealing with Marc and I was lucky enough to get out before I pulled the trigger, thanks to the gentleman that first posted this thread. I could believe that this happened to him.

Two big things that I did not like in our conversation;

1) No phone number? What type of worthy business does not have a phone in this day and age? If you do not have a phone you do not want people to get in touch with you. I want just the opposite, if I am going to send you hundreds of my hard earned dollars. I want at least some type of customer service.

2) I send a check you wait for it to clear, then hopefully you send tree. (Thanks, but NO thanks) And then even more hopefully it survives the trip because it was not packaged properly.


After falling out with Marc, I took some advice and had just the opposite experience with Don Blackmond. It could not have been any better. I will spend my money with Don instead. Don, is top notch with GREAT trees.

 

[milehigh_7]

In all fairness guys, the person who complained here has never bothered to follow up on his complaint here, either to say he was ripped off, or that he received his product. Being a small business owner for over 30 years and being well used to dealing with people this inaction on the man complaining says too me he received his product and does not have the decency to admit he jumped the gun. I have had customers call me 25 times before complaining that I never answer the phone during teh course of one morning, yes just over 5 hours , during which time I was completing another job. When I returned the call and told them I would be there in 15 minutes to rectify the situation, the customer was happy, yet he still told his neighbor several weeks later he called me dozens of times before I returned his call. Fortunately his neighbor knew him well and asked him how long it took me to get back with him, and his answer of 5 hours impressed the neighbor enough to give me the job and then to give me a rehab on an apartment building he owned too. Some people you can not deal with rationally as they are not rational and expect too much, others are self important and expect their ass kissed while they are rude. Thankfully most people are decent. In my opinion if this man who started this thread was ripped off he would be back here whining like and old woman, he probably does not have the balls to come back and admit he was wrong.

ed

You are right Ed, it does look suspicious that he has not been back on this thread. However, did you read the thread that he referenced at the top? Person after person echoed the same thing about this business with nobody saying they had good experiences. The only one who says anything good about this business in either thread is the owner. Now that is suspicious.

 

[JudyB]

In all fairness guys, the person who complained here has never bothered to follow up on his complaint here, either to say he was ripped off, or that he received his product. Being a small business owner for over 30 years and being well used to dealing with people this inaction on the man complaining says too me he received his product and does not have the decency to admit he jumped the gun. I have had customers call me 25 times before complaining that I never answer the phone during teh course of one morning, yes just over 5 hours , during which time I was completing another job. When I returned the call and told them I would be there in 15 minutes to rectify the situation, the customer was happy, yet he still told his neighbor several weeks later he called me dozens of times before I returned his call. Fortunately his neighbor knew him well and asked him how long it took me to get back with him, and his answer of 5 hours impressed the neighbor enough to give me the job and then to give me a rehab on an apartment building he owned too. Some people you can not deal with rationally as they are not rational and expect too much, others are self important and expect their ass kissed while they are rude. Thankfully most people are decent. In my opinion if this man who started this thread was ripped off he would be back here whining like and old woman, he probably does not have the balls to come back and admit he was wrong.

ed

Ed, this is not the only thread on this board about problems with this company, and there are other boards echoing the same types of issues with this company. I think that there is more on one side of the scale than the other.... That usually means something.

 

[Smoke]

If it looks like poop and smells like poop.... then it must be a duck.

I think I screwed that up...

 

[Dav4]

If it looks like poop and smells like poop.... then it must be a duck.

I think I screwed that up...

...Quack!!!!...