ColinFraser
Masterpiece
Bummer. How long have you had it, and when was it put in that pot/repotted last?
massive foliage removal on shohin trunk chop
- Thread starter mrcasey
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Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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Arm chair qb here...I would never have chopped a pine down that aggressively and would have done it in stages.
jeanluc83
Omono
Too much too quickly. Once they start looking like that there is not much hope.
This might be the key.
I seem to remember that the rule of thumb is to not remove more than 50% of the foliage in one go.
This might be the key.
I seem to remember that the rule of thumb is to not remove more than 50% of the foliage in one go.
Giga
Masterpiece
should have left it- then pulled needles and use that long branch as a sacrifice branch and used that lower bud as the new trunk. To late now, plus I think it's dead.
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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Yeah, I would have done it over 2 seasons, assuming the new leader was vigorous.
LanceMac10
Imperial Masterpiece
Seemed like the conversation was about sacrifice branch techniques. Indicating to me a consensus NOT to chop.At least Pines will let you know quick if you messed up!
Lance,
Although Adair and Oso didn't aggree with chopping on aesthetic grounds, they didn't seem to have real
reservations about the health issue. As the thread evolved into a discussion about sacrifices, I thought
that anybody with a concern might raise the issue.
It's not a huge loss - three year old tree. The only thing that burns my ass is that the nebari had some
serious potential. There are at least eight radial roots coming out at the same point on that trunk.
I chopped another JBP at the same time but just a little larger. It's doing fine. wtf?
Casey
ps - I'm not blaming anybody but myself and my own ignorance. I appreciate everybody's candor and perspective.
Although Adair and Oso didn't aggree with chopping on aesthetic grounds, they didn't seem to have real
reservations about the health issue. As the thread evolved into a discussion about sacrifices, I thought
that anybody with a concern might raise the issue.
It's not a huge loss - three year old tree. The only thing that burns my ass is that the nebari had some
serious potential. There are at least eight radial roots coming out at the same point on that trunk.
I chopped another JBP at the same time but just a little larger. It's doing fine. wtf?
Casey
ps - I'm not blaming anybody but myself and my own ignorance. I appreciate everybody's candor and perspective.
0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
Well, tell us about how you did the chop. Such sudden death implies massive root problems, IMHO.
AND, do you still have it around to do a necropsy?
OR, if you already did a necropsy, tell us about what you saw.
AND, do you still have it around to do a necropsy?
OR, if you already did a necropsy, tell us about what you saw.
LanceMac10
Imperial Masterpiece
You removed 90% of the tree's foliage. Pines need needles to power growth. You could have used the most delicate process to remove that growth and I think the results would have been the same.
Any tree you lose should be treated as a learning experience. That's how I justify the cost to myself when I kill something.
Any tree you lose should be treated as a learning experience. That's how I justify the cost to myself when I kill something.
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
I have a JBP that I've been letting grow for about 6 years. It has a very long sacrifice branch (I think about 8' now) and fortunately also has some small branches near the base. I was discussing how to approach the removal of the sacrifice with Brent Walston not too long ago (I originally got the seedling from Brent) and he was pretty adamant that it should be removed in stages - about half the first year, the rest the following year.
That said, I don't know if removing it all at once would necessarily kill a healthy tree. The problem I see with cutting it all the way back to essentially a single bud is that if something happens to that bud, you might not get another one. The picture posted looks like it could be tip blight, so perhaps this was an unfortunate coincidence, i.e. you chopped back to a bud that was already infected and was going to die anyway. In any case, I don't think it would ever be wise to cut a JBP back to a single branch/bud.
That said, I don't know if removing it all at once would necessarily kill a healthy tree. The problem I see with cutting it all the way back to essentially a single bud is that if something happens to that bud, you might not get another one. The picture posted looks like it could be tip blight, so perhaps this was an unfortunate coincidence, i.e. you chopped back to a bud that was already infected and was going to die anyway. In any case, I don't think it would ever be wise to cut a JBP back to a single branch/bud.
ChrisV
Shohin
Let the top grow and one side branch close to the base. (very long)
this will thicken the trunk in about 5 to 10 years.
Length plus the lower branch makes the trunk thicker.
Dont do anything till then.
After some years when the trunk is the desired thickness start cutting back to get the desired branch structure to build up the tree.
Best results are when cultivated in the open field.
Keep fertilizing and cut candles.
After a couple of years... still letting the top branch grow. cut everything back.
When the trunk is getting thicker start working on ramification.
Thats how you build up a black pine.
Cutting it now won't get you anywhere.
Ir will leave you with a thin stump and maybe some needles.
Patience thats key to growing good bonsai.
ColinFraser
Masterpiece
Gotta read the whole thread man; this thing's dead as a doornail!
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ColinFraser
Masterpiece
What about my repot question? Was it recently?
Colin - I repotted this guy in September of last year. I always figure that these really young trees will put up with more abuse but maybe I
pushed it too far. I have a slightly bigger one that I did the same to - it turned out ok.
I pulled this guy out of the pot today and looked at the roots. They look kind of dry but there are two large roots with the long white bud caps about
2" long. Just for the helluva it, I put in the sandy loam that is my garden.
It does look kind of fungusy. I sprayed it today with some daconil. Meh...
pushed it too far. I have a slightly bigger one that I did the same to - it turned out ok.
I pulled this guy out of the pot today and looked at the roots. They look kind of dry but there are two large roots with the long white bud caps about
2" long. Just for the helluva it, I put in the sandy loam that is my garden.
It does look kind of fungusy. I sprayed it today with some daconil. Meh...
