Mastering Bonsai or rather having mastered Bonsai

[Anthony]

So folks, you look for people who have been doing bonsai for say 50 years and
the trees are healthy and designs impressive.

Do they write books on Bonsai ?

Imagine what they could share...........................

Now I ask, who has written these books and where can I purchase them ?

In the 1800's there are quite a few books on Fine Art by folk who had painted for
years, with helpful information, not just the technical, but experiences that
help.

Shouldn't such books exist in Bonsai ?
Anyone, help ?
Thanks in Advance.
Anthony

* Yes, I know of the Murata books.

 

[Adair M]

Anthony, sadly, books are becoming obsolete.

I think you could do better by subscribing to a few bloggers.

I personally like Jonas' blog: www.bonsaitonight.com

Bjorn' blog is also good.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Over time I have become convinced that reading a book about bonsai is like reading a book about dance.

Yes, you can learn from a book, but some things you have to experience.

 

[Adair M]

Over time I have become convinced that reading a book about bonsai is like reading a book about dance.

Yes, you can learn from a book, but some things you have to experience.

Indeed!

The first time I saw Boon working a JBP with tweezers, it was like watching a surgeon performing a delicate operation!

At the National Shohin show, I assisted John Romano with the JBP workshop. And one guy was having some difficulty wiring. So, I picked up some branches that had been cut off some trees, and wired them. He watched. I told him to study how the wire was placed.

The next day, he told me that he had studied those twigs with wire and he was so pleased that he could now do it himself! He had practiced in his hotel room!

Things like that, you just can't get from books.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I know I am repeating myself here but...

The only thing that comes close (for me) to being there in person is the bonsai streams at Bonsai Mirai. Super high quality, and the archive is only going to get better with time. It's like sitting in Ryan's workshop and chatting with him while he works on really expensive trees

 

[Paradox]

I think books are a good starting point to begin to understand the basic concepts of bonsai, particularly horticulture, basic design and care of trees.
The basic info and practices have not changed. Sure there has been some evolution, but I dont feel that books are totally obsolete.

That said, I do feel that bonsai is a very hands on thing and you cant advance yourself and get better at it by only reading books and blogs and forums.
There needs to be in person observation, interaction and learning as well, followed by practice and more practice on many trees.

 

[MichaelS]

Blogs are all good and well but they cannot convey the same feeling as someone who has lived with bonsai for 50 years or more. (Everyone's an expert!) Most of what they say is learned not experienced over extended periods. Murata and possibly Kato are the only ones I know of that have written much. You won't find a blogger saying things like ''This will create a group planting which transcends technique'' or ''This tree is a true child of the sun and is not happy unless the weather is so swelteringly hot that we humans are helpless''
I'm not sure about the newer ones but the older issues of International Bonsai mag has many articles written by veterans with a deep insight of their particular subject.
In the end you cannot beat experience...Let me know how your search goes Anthony!

 

[PiñonJ]

I know I am repeating myself here but...

The only thing that comes close (for me) to being there in person is the bonsai streams at Bonsai Mirai. Super high quality, and the archive is only going to get better with time. It's like sitting in Ryan's workshop and chatting with him while he works on really expensive trees

@Anthony, subscribing to Mirai Live will give you invaluable information. Ryan says he will never write a book because knowledge of bonsai culture is evolving too quickly. The Naka books are still excellent for fundamental design concepts. Just ignore virtually all of the horticultural advice!

 

[Bolero]

Anthony, here is a hardcover book that deserves your attention and fits your OP...I have a copy and consider it One Off from your Typical Bonsai book...
It wont copy to this thread
Go to Ebay and type in Bonsai Koreshoff

 

[Anthony]

Hey to All thanks.

Sifu, I like to read, and chew on what I have read ---------------- books obsolete -------- please never.

Michael, one comment I enjoyed came from a Chinese sage/writer back in the 1500's, he thought
Chinese bonsai so cruel, he used to purchase plants and set them free on his estate.
Imagine how much land he must have had.

@Bolero , have had the Koreshoff since it came out, thank you though.
Same for the Classical Bonsai of Japan.
Plus quite a few unheard of Chinese versions of their Classical Bonsai.

@PiñonJ and @Bonsai Nut ,

now you see, this is where K's training and knowledge, alters my view of a student presently teaching.

First question would be how many trees from seed / cutting has this guy done, and brought to realized Design ?

If he were a Fine Artist, he would expected to go off and clear his mind for 3 to 5 years, and think out
what he was taught, to become his own person.

With Bonsai it would be probably 10 years.

When someone is taught in an Atelier, Florence or US, he gains the ability to simply look and understand.
It is rare that the visual has to be explained.
Like Sifu's fish hook technique.

So Master Neil would be expected to go and practice, to become himself.

Hence the preference for books by folk who have been doing for 50 years +

It is a Fine Art practice, being extended to a practice [ Bonsai ] trying to become a Fine Art.

We keep looking for those who have mastered Design, which is the Art part.

So books are more important than students teaching.
Thanks again to All.
Any sages of miniature trees out there ?
Good Day
Anthony

 

[M. Frary]

Any sages of miniature trees out there ?

You called?

 

[Cadillactaste]

I'm a book lover...so I can grasp your love of books. The feel of turning the page. One book the late Jim told me every bonsai enthusiast should own...one he would refer to even with his knowledge. Was this book here. Though he told me to wait for the second edition which now is in print. More information...hardcover book of substance. If you don't already have it. I suggest it is a good read. And again...Jim had valid points why the book benefited ones of any years in the hobby.
http://www.stonelantern.com/Principles_of_Bonsai_Tree_Design_p/b1prin.htm

I have Korshoff's book, as I see you have that one already...another Jim refered me to...over Naka books. Not that Naka's books aren't legendary...but they are books taken from his notes. So...unless one understands bonsai they can become confusing is what he said. But as mentioned horticulture aspects have changed along the way as well.

Will's book (Grouper52) if you want amazing naturalistic trees that are memorizing his book has it. I can't tell you how many times I become forgetful looking at it and try to zoom in on the photo as if looking at it on my iPad. Will was nice enough to get me an autographed copy of his and Dan's signatures. And a nice sentiment as well...
http://www.elandangardens.com/gnarlybranches/

 

[Paradox]

@Anthony

If you want a good book about bonsai design, David DeGroot published an updated edition to his book Principles of Bonsai Design in 2015 iirc.

 

[Anthony]

@Paradox,

Sandy, thanks for that, but what is being looked for is more on when you no longer think about
Health or Design.

I guess it what it comes down to is 50 years of growing, having seen Designs changes around 5 times,
why stay in Bonsai?
Someone asked K down here and he wanted to read more before answering.

As I have typed before, Bonsai here are grown more for inspiration / peace of mind and so on.

Nothing to do with exhibition or showing off.

So for us Bonsai is eternal, but for a good many down here, it is about exhibiting and locking into
personal achievements as one ages..
This type of thinking can lead to major disappointments.
Thanks again.
Anthony

* Was it not Dan Barton who sells the tree when he achieves the Design ?

 

[M. Frary]

before answering

Can't you guys give smartass answers?
It cuts down on all of the questions.
If someone asked me why I did bonsai for so long I would reply "Because I can."
Answers like that shut up all but the most interested.

 

[Bolero]

Anthony Who is K ???

 

[Paradox]

Can't you guys give smartass answers?
It cuts down on all of the questions.
If someone asked me why I did bonsai for so long I would reply "Because I can."
Answers like that shut up all but the most interested.

Yes I think the reasons why someone stays or leaves bonsai are personal and individualistic.

 

[William N. Valavanis]

Anthony,

Have you seen my latest book: Classical Bonsai Art– A Half Century of Bonsai Study, The Creations and Passion of William N. Valavanis? It was published five years ago and is technically out of print, but I still have a few copies available. http://www.internationalbonsai.com/page/1442819

 

[Anthony]

@Bolero,

K is Khaimraj [ IBC old member ] brother in law, Fine Artist and the one who designs the trees
down here, as I only weed and water. Growing trees since 1980 or so.
Visited the old Bonsai folk on your side and Italy / UK back in the 80's.
He also teaches [ for free ] Bonsai / Penjing techniques to those who have a true interest.

There is a small group down here who have been doing Bonsai since 1970/1980, plus
the Chinese who came to Trinidad since 1870 or so and were willing to share [ very rare ]

Both K and I are part Cantonese Chinese, and we have Chinese mixes from all over China
on the island.

Trinidad is a well blended island European / Middle Eastern / Indian / Chinese / Japanese
and of course Amerindian.

@M. Frary and @Paradox ,

sorry Mike, you should know me well enough by now, and K, we try to help, and help
sensibly.
Folk down here are not rich and everything save for the trees would have to be imported,
Hence the research into local trees and techniques for thickening trunks by colander ground growing
on tiles for radial root in needed.

@Cadillactaste ,

been politely dancing around this,

[1] Two points, a Fine Artist would not not really meed design technology, an Old Master painting
such as one by Titian, is a good deal more complicated than a Bonsai.

[2] Jim Lewis and K are both old folk off of IBC. If you find the IBC archive in the wayback machine.
You could read and understand.

Thanks a million for offering information.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Anthony]

@William N. Valavanis

Wow, hello Mr. Valavanis.

Thank you for responding!!

Humbly apologise, Your book is in the Amazon wish list of K's.
As a group we just finished purchasing 9 acres of land on the Northern side of the island.
Empty pockets on all sides.

Will purchase as soon as the money comes back in.
Thank you very much for taking the time to respond.
Good Day
Anthony