Mile High Bonsai

[stacy allen muse]

Yep, good material is bad for you, and bad material is good.
Hm..it makes sense, right? So, if good material is bad, we should call it bad-good material. And he cheap bad material is good, so call it good-bad material.
In conclusion, you should buy the good-bad material, that is not too expensive, because it is a few dollars cheaper than the bad-good material. Don't worry abut the possibility that the bad-good material would save you many years, since you are young, and time has no value for you.

Phew, that was a little complicated...

Here is my advice:
Don't listen to anybody on this forum. We are all arrogant idiots (with me, leading the pack), and our main purpose is to deceive people

Attila, since you seem to be taking things a bit personal... Hence the fact that I don't remember even mentioning your name or anyone elses. I will clarify for you in a simple hopefully understandable way...

I posted what I did reguarding the fact, that since he is new and is just starting off, that "MY" personal opinion would be that he start of with cheaper material, and practice on that, and start to learn how to style as well as take care of it. I said this for a couple of reasons... the first being, that he has allready stated that he is looking for material for under $40. The second being that he, in the process of learning is more than likely to make some mistakes... Hence the term "learning". Lastly once he starts getting involved with his trees, it is understandable that he will not want to stop, and will continue to work on them and not let them recover between. Which might, along with a lack of understanding of how to care for them, lead to their demise.

Now you and perhaps some others might think this is a bad approach to starting off, for this has been discussed before in some detail on previous beginner threads here at B-NUT. As far as what I believe, I see no point in him saving his money and buying expensive stock, only to either give up doing Bonsai, to repeatably post threads here of "oh my god my tree's in trouble, what do I do", or funny enough like he's allready been slamed for (and perhaps for good reason), in his discussion of whether or not he should collect, because he might kill it.

Agree with me or disagree with me Fine.
Think I have crappy little beginner trees, which is why assume you posted your reply... Fine.
But in the mean time perhaps you can get your head out of your ass and stay focussed on the message, of trying to actually help someone who doesn't perhaps know as much as you do, and didn't do anything to you... actually understand and learn Bonsai.

 

[therianthrope]

Sorry, fella - not interested in suffering fools.

That's funny, because it seems to me you keep coming back to this thread with little other purpose.



Thank you, everyone, for your input. Truly.

Obviously I was and am anxious to DO something, to have a tree that looks like it could be something and to put my hands on it, but after a few days of "cooling off" on the idea, of course it makes sense to start from the beginning and to take the time to do it right. But were any of you all that different when you first thought to try and take up bonsai? I doubt it.

I wish I had more money to spend on this, but I don't so I'm just going to have to work with what I can get for now. I have gotten some pretty good reference material for cheap and if I can get some stock to work with for cheap, that's about all I can ask for.

Once I've made some progress, I'll let you know how things are going.

Thanks again.

 

[stacy allen muse]

Sorry, fella - not interested in suffering fools.

And that is fine...

I will admit that Therianthrope, kinda came off perhaps a little cocky, you all have given him his lashings for it... I just ask that perhaps we move on, like he has seemed to do and get back to talking bonsai.

If one wishes to continue to post stories of how newbies don't know what they are doing, and don't want to listen to a damn thing, then perhaps a new thread could be established for this particular topic... If you would like I could even do it for you.

Clearly Therianthrope is listening now, and could benifit from more of your advice !!!

Dude, no hard feelings...

 

[stacy allen muse]

That's funny, because it seems to me you keep coming back to this thread with little other purpose.



Thank you, everyone, for your input. Truly.

Obviously I was and am anxious to DO something, to have a tree that looks like it could be something and to put my hands on it, but after a few days of "cooling off" on the idea, of course it makes sense to start from the beginning and to take the time to do it right. But were any of you all that different when you first thought to try and take up bonsai? I doubt it.

I wish I had more money to spend on this, but I don't so I'm just going to have to work with what I can get for now. I have gotten some pretty good reference material for cheap and if I can get some stock to work with for cheap, that's about all I can ask for.

Once I've made some progress, I'll let you know how things are going.

Thanks again.

With the amount of testosterone flying around you probally thought you had stubled upon the "driving tanks, spittin' dip, and kickin major ass forum"... instead of a bonsai forum.

Everyone here means well and does know allot about Bonsai... perhaps some too much for their own good !!! Often it is forgotten we all were once in your shoes. So, stick arround... just next time besure you have your flak jacket on.

 

[therianthrope]

With the amount of testosterone flying around you probally thought you had stubled upon the "driving tanks, spittin' dip, and kickin major ass forum"... instead of a bonsai forum.

Everyone here means well and does know allot about Bonsai... perhaps some too much for their own good !!! Often it is forgotten we all were once in your shoes. So, stick arround... just next time besure you have your flak jacket on.

Well, it is the internets, I expected some amount of hostility just as I would on any well established forum community.

And I'd be the first to admit I can be abrasive, but it really doesn't tend to come out unless beckoned or maybe if I'm angry IRL (which since most of these posts have came while I was at work, well...). From my perspective it made sense, every hobby I've acquired in adulthood has been a DIY type of process so it was just natural that I approached this in the same way, I just didn't give much thought to how ...traditional... practitioners might react to that.

 

[rockm]

"From my perspective it made sense, every hobby I've acquired in adulthood has been a DIY type of process so it was just natural that I approached this in the same way, I just didn't give much thought to how ...traditional... practitioners might react to that. "

You are hardly alone in your DIY approach. Just about ALL of us come from there. You don't simply pick up a foreign, mostly alien art/gardening hobby without a bit of wherewithal, curiosity and a willingness to pull yourself up by own bootstraps.
Do it yourself? Yeah, most of us here that have been doing bonsai for the last 20 years had to improvise and invent new soils, find new native species to work with, develop techniques that work on those species (As opposed to the "traditional" techniques developed in Japan), improvise new tools (the high-speed "bonsai" grinders used to develop deadwood have largely been refined in the West)... build our own bonsai pots, construct our own shelving systems, winter shelters...whew...The list goes on. We are hardly "traditional" practitioners. Those guys are on the Eastern side of the Pacific But if You think WE'RE rough on newbies, ask a Westerner who has apprenticed at a Japanese bonsai nursery about their experiences...

 

[Klytus]

Aye,the Leary style transcendentalism,something evocative drawn from nowhere.

 

[Attila Soos]

you can get your head out of your ass and stay focussed

Well, well, Stacy Allen Muse,
and I thought that trash talking happens only on Hockey forums....

I believe, I see no point in him saving his money and buying expensive stock, only to either give up doing Bonsai

Have it ever occurred to you, that people may also give up bonsai because they start with bad material and unsuitable species, which causes one frustration after another, with no sense of accomplishment? Apparently not, although one would expect that, from somebody with your vast experience.

Expensive material is a relative term. I happened to find very decent material in the $40 - $60 range.

(and please note that since this is a family forum, I restrained myself from mentioning any of your private parts, although the temptation was certainly there)

 

[stacy allen muse]

Well, well, Stacy Allen Muse,
and I thought that trash talking happens only on Hockey forums....



Have it ever occurred to you, that people may also give up bonsai because they start with bad material and unsuitable species, which causes one frustration after another, with no sense of accomplishment? Apparently not, although one would expect that, from somebody with your vast experience.

Expensive material is a relative term. I happened to find very decent material in the $40 - $60 range.

(and please note that since this is a family forum, I restrained myself from mentioning any of your private parts, although the temptation was certainly there)

Really dude,
ARE YOU LIKE FIVE ??? This is got to be one of the funniest things I think anyone has every written, trying to insult me. This, I am assumming is a joke, right ???
trash talking happens only on Hockey forums, this is a family forum, and not metioning any of my private parts...

Just for the record...

I made a post of which you decided to negatively respond too.
I somehow don't recall in it that I said "Hey Attila", what do you think ?
I also don't recall twisting your arm and making you post anything.
I do recall that rather than disagree with my actual statements and state so by listing a legit reason, You decided of your own free will, that you would rather insult me.
What I think the most rediculous part is you also had to somehow try and bring a whole nother arguement in as well, from an entirely different thread.

So, I ask YOU, where here are the wholesome family values that you speak of ???
Oh, I get it... do as I say, not as I do.
Sounds A little hypocritical to me ???

But if you would like... I will probally be posting a whole lot of other posts here at B-NUT, that you can feel free to try an insult me on as well... doesn't really have much to do with actual "Bonsai", but as long as it makes you and your family approach happy !!!

 

[Attila Soos]

All right Stacy,

Let's just move on.
You keep teaching the masses, and I will try to listen. May be I can learn some bonsai from you, if I can keep my mouth shut.

No harm, no foul.

 

[Smoke]

All right Stacy,

Let's just move on.
You keep teaching the masses, and I will try to listen. May be I can learn some bonsai from you, if I can keep my mouth shut.

No harm, no foul.

Thats what I'm doing Attila. Just keeping my mouth shut. We have been thru this before ehh?

Teaching the masses...that was funny..I just cleaned my fingernails..found the combined knowledge of him in about thirty seconds.

Just gonna sit back and see how long this takes. The self destruction has begun.

 

[stacy allen muse]

All right Stacy,

Let's just move on.
You keep teaching the masses, and I will try to listen. May be I can learn some bonsai from you, if I can keep my mouth shut.

No harm, no foul.

Instead of listening... try reading ???

 

[Attila Soos]

Thats what I'm doing Attila. Just keeping my mouth shut. We have been thru this before ehh?

Teaching the masses...that was funny..I just cleaned my fingernails..found the combined knowledge of him in about thirty seconds.

Just gonna sit back and see how long this takes. The self destruction has begun.

Are you coming down this way in a couple of weeks?
I am looking forward to digging a monster Tamarisk yamadori on Thursday, and then enjoy the Kathy Shaner seminar on Friday.

 

[stacy allen muse]

Thats what I'm doing Attila. Just keeping my mouth shut. We have been thru this before ehh?

Teaching the masses...that was funny..I just cleaned my fingernails..found the combined knowledge of him in about thirty seconds.

Just gonna sit back and see how long this takes. The self destruction has begun.

Not the dreaded "self destruction" ???

See, the problem, with you Smoke and and some of the others... is that you are taking everything personaly.

I came here and posted how I didn't feel it was right to continue to give therianthrope anymore hassle. That I felt he had been harrased enough, he is just starting off and is new to this forum. I know that you don't seem to have a problem with running others off this site, but I don't think that seems very fair to do to someone who only came looking for some help.

Then I posted my opinion of what I think is a good approach for a beginner just starting off. Your friend here, decided to try and prove how tuff and cool he was, because he seems a little unable to move on from the previous descussion. A little rediculous, so I called him out for it and thought we should get back to the discussion of "Bonsai", that's it end of story.

Sorry, Smoke not much here...
One day perhaps you and some of the others might realize that I can disagree with you, and even get mad... but I not going to hold some freaking grudge against you, or the others just because.
I have mentioned to you before that the reason why I came here is to discuss Bonsai, and it's true. I unfortunately have had to argue along the way, which I would rather of not, but just because I might disagree with you doesn't make me wrong.

So let me now ask you a couple of questions...
This is the second thread now that you have ignored posting any actual realitive information on, but instead choose to insult me rather than talk about bonsai. So, for my question and don't get all crazy and mad, for I am being serious... Why are you here ??? I don't think it is just to go arround and check out what I am posting, is it ??? Is it somehow that important to you that you prove somehow that you are right and I am wrong, or about me somehow not giving you some sort of respect that you think you deserve ???

Whatever it is dude, I have to say that I don't want to see your destruction, nor would I ever wish any harm on you or anyone else here, and most of all, I wouldn't put such words in print, especially with all the idiots out there. But see I guess here's where we differ..

I don't think B-NUT is going to like us very much if we keep going over everyone's threads continuing with the same silly stupid little arguments. So what ever you want to be right about, you've got it... You want respect... you've got it... Smoke is the best Bonsai artist in the whole world !!!

 

[Smoke]

Are you coming down this way in a couple of weeks?
I am looking forward to digging a monster Tamarisk yamadori on Thursday, and then enjoy the Kathy Shaner seminar on Friday.

Nope not this year. Just can't see the point right now. So far and I have so much good material that going there is just not on my front burner. I have gotten so entrenched in the ancient roman coins and the politics of the era that bonsai has taken a back burner.

I will be teaching a workshop at shohin this Feb. and have the plants really looking good for that. Will toss all my eggs in that basket. Close to home too!

I will Have Kathy the following weekend at Kazari. I am not entering this year but will follow the festivities. Grooming the tree for next year though

That should be an update soon.

 

[Smoke]

Not the dreaded "self destruction" ???

See, the problem, with you Smoke and and some of the others... is that you are taking everything personaly.

I came here and posted how I didn't feel it was right to continue to give therianthrope anymore hassle. That I felt he had been harrased enough, he is just starting off and is new to this forum. I know that you don't seem to have a problem with running others off this site, but I don't think that seems very fair to do to someone who only came looking for some help.

Then I posted my opinion of what I think is a good approach for a beginner just starting off. Your friend here, decided to try and prove how tuff and cool he was, because he seems a little unable to move on from the previous descussion. A little rediculous, so I called him out for it and thought we should get back to the discussion of "Bonsai", that's it end of story.

Sorry, Smoke not much here...
One day perhaps you and some of the others might realize that I can disagree with you, and even get mad... but I not going to hold some freaking grudge against you, or the others just because.
I have mentioned to you before that the reason why I came here is to discuss Bonsai, and it's true. I unfortunately have had to argue along the way, which I would rather of not, but just because I might disagree with you doesn't make me wrong.

So let me now ask you a couple of questions...
This is the second thread now that you have ignored posting any actual realitive information on, but instead choose to insult me rather than talk about bonsai. So, for my question and don't get all crazy and mad, for I am being serious... Why are you here ??? I don't think it is just to go arround and check out what I am posting, is it ??? Is it somehow that important to you that you prove somehow that you are right and I am wrong, or about me somehow not giving you some sort of respect that you think you deserve ???

Whatever it is dude, I have to say that I don't want to see your destruction, nor would I ever wish any harm on you or anyone else here, and most of all, I wouldn't put such words in print, especially with all the idiots out there. But see I guess here's where we differ..

I don't think B-NUT is going to like us very much if we keep going over everyone's threads continuing with the same silly stupid little arguments. So what ever you want to be right about, you've got it... You want respect... you've got it... Smoke is the best Bonsai artist in the whole world !!!

*yawn*.....

 

[JudyB]

Really, can't youz guyz just start a thread where you can poke each other instead of doing it on real threads???? I am here to learn BONSAI. I'm sure you'll tell me to just ignore it, but here's the thing. You all have information that is important to learning, I don't want to miss anything. So I read the posts, and feel like I need to shower after. shame shame.

 

[stacy allen muse]

Sorry JudyB, I appologize !!!

 

[Klytus]

The ancient roman dice are interesting.

It's your throw Jesus!

Lord,why have you forsaken me?

 

[JudyB]

Sorry JudyB, I appologize !!!

Accepted. Thanks for that. I know it takes two to tango, sometimes three....