Milehigh_7's personal pine entry thread

milehigh_7

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Here goes!
January 31, 2018: Ordered 100 JBP seeds from TreeSeeds.com
February 6, 2018: Seeds arrived. They were tossed unopened on a shelf in the garage.
March 26, 2018: Opened Seeds 400 seeds received:

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milehigh_7

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Now for the first variable...

The seeds were randomly split into batches of 200 each. Both batches will soak in (both 50ml of solution) warm water, 16:1 3% hydrogen peroxide, and a 1/2 strength amount of "Espoma Organic Start"

Batch 1: Will have the addition of 500ppm of Gibberellic acid GA3

Batch 2: Will have only the stock solution

All will soak for 24 Hours. I will not count floaters and sinkers. I will sow directly tomorrow with no fridge time.

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milehigh_7

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24 - hours later I looked at the "sinkers vs. floaters" and the GA3 had more floaters however both were well north of 90% sinkers.

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milehigh_7

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Both were blotted dry and sown in .99 cent store containers identically prepared as follows:
A bottom layer of DE saturated and drained of excess water.
Just enough sand to smoothly cover the DE
Seeds spread as evenly as possible
Just enough sand to cover the seed
Sand was sprayed with water from a hand sprayer until wet
All layers sprayed with Daconil.

Bottom heat clicks on at 70F off at 75F
16/8 light/dark hrs.

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my nellie

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Wish you good luck!
Are there any bottom holes on the containers, may I ask?
 

milehigh_7

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As of yesterday, I have sprouts... I don't think they will live because it has been super hot in my house and we don't want to use the air yet.
 

KiwiPlantGuy

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As of yesterday, I have sprouts... I don't think they will live because it has been super hot in my house and we don't want to use the air yet.

Hi milehigh_7,
?? Remember these are pine trees not tropos lol. I think I am safe in suggesting you could put these in the garage, or even outside(?) under plastic or glass cold frame.
Eg. Try something cooler for awhile maybe and gauge the next few days.
My gut feelings sorry, others may have a different/better/more experienced opinions.
Charles
 

theone420

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Hi milehigh_7,
?? Remember these are pine trees not tropos lol. I think I am safe in suggesting you could put these in the garage, or even outside(?) under plastic or glass cold frame.
Eg. Try something cooler for awhile maybe and gauge the next few days.
My gut feelings sorry, others may have a different/better/more experienced opinions.
Charles
mine have been outside here in palm springs (open flats - no lids) getting 1/2 to 3/4 day sun from about 10-11am to sundown since the end of February and they are doing ok. even with the crazy up and down weather we are having. it reached 100 degree last week for three days and the next day the high was 80 and now it's in the 70's when it would normally be at least 90.
 

milehigh_7

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Okay, so these pics are from last Sunday. Due to my screwed up life, I am not sure if I will get to continue, we will see. However there are some preliminary results to mention.

GA3 is in many species a substance that, among other things, helps the seed break dormancy. However, it is clear that with JBP it acts as a germination inhibitor. IMG_20180422_070027477.jpgIMG_20180422_070039229.jpg
 

milehigh_7

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This work was done very hastily before I left for a cruise on May 31st. So here is the next step of my contest trees (and it may be the last). I waited way too long to do cutting I believe but I still had way north of 50 left.

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I gently removed them from the sand/DE mixture. I think the roots like this mix, seems a shame to chop them up:

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Here goes nothing. roots and needles chopped. I cut the needles because for the next step 1) you want to fit more in the test tube and 2) you don't much want photosynthetic surface area, which I will explain in a bit. Then into a nice bath of 20:1 water/bleach (household, plain, unscented) for about 30 minutes.

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Now into a test tube with a tissue culture branching solution (TDZ and table sugar basically) where they will sit for the next 2 weeks to a month. I got this idea from another industry. ;-) supposedly it works miracles with that.

What I have learned so far:
GA3 inhibits sprouting
JBP love a sand DE substrate
(I think) Earlier cuttings do better (I need to be more organized)
I want to try this again and do better with timing.

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milehigh_7

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LOL Sorry TDZ is indeed Thidiazuron. Most of us have used rooting hormone. Essentially what that does is tells a plant cell from say a branch, trunk, or leaf and change its instructions to "produce root cells." TDZ is another plant hormone but this one instructs the plant to produce branches (among other things). In Tissue culture, you can use this and some other things to make a plantlet out of as little as a single cell. You can then divide these branches and root them for new plants.

Well in this procedure, I wanted to take a few shortcuts and not do a full tissue culture cycle. All I wanted to do was basically give it an IV of branching hormone. The idea being that I hopefully get multiple nodes at that very first growth point and therefore wait and hope for low branches. If this works I will have more of a fat, bushy JBP shrub from the start.

The problem with me is I am a bit like the absent minded professor in that my mind is like a steel trap. I catch all kinds of stuff in there but with very little chance of it getting out! LOL I am working on my organizational skills but we will count those eggs when they hatch. In this procedure I was about a month late cutting my seedlings and rushed to get them in the test tubes because we were leaving for a cruise and I did not want to trust the house sitter to mist them a few times a day. Then I was about two weeks late getting them out of the tubes. I would have had WAY better results if I had been punctual.
 

milehigh_7

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So here are the results going into the rooting medium. First, I modified @cmeg1 rooting process to fit what I had on hand. I have several of the same trays and domes that I use and I still have a few trays of 'Root Maker' cells that drop into this size of tray. I also had Sphagnum moss on hand. I make my own rooting hormone which is IBA and NAA so essentially it is 2500ppm (technically I make a 10000ppm stock solution then dilute it) Dip n Grow made with water and not alcohol. I make this a liter at a time.

(Side note if you ever want the hormone recipe or a more in-depth explanation of the culturing process I will post a guide)

So the next thing I did was to take a 7L bag of sphagnum (just about the perfect amount for a tray) and soaked it overnight in a 4:1 peroxide solution to kill any spores or other beasties. The next day gave it a weak dose of fertilizer and trace minerals. Then put a 'Root Maker' (60 cells per tray) tray into the bottom tray and packed each cell about 3/4 full of moss (just enough to cover the side holes so the sand would not fall out).

Next I topped it off with builders sand (like I used to sprout initially).

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Next for the exciting part! I wanted to see if this was a complete failure. Seventeen lived I dumped all the tubes into a bath of 40:1 water/household bleach (more for the other cuttings I put in but I have learned you can never get cuttings clean enough...) and picked out the dead ones.

The other cuttings in the batch are Emperor Pomegranate (@Eric Group I have not forgotten life just sucks!) and Pink Pixie bougainvillea (@Carol 83 Pink Pixie is a dwarf ;)) Now you can't see really well because these are crappy pictures but take a look at the growth node. Look how fat it is! I am hoping this is proof of concept and I will get many branches out of this point! If they live that would be a huge step in JBP development! It's already worth doing again with much better control over time periods

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In this pic you can see the other thing TDZ does, it makes the stem gain girth. These have all approximately doubled in caliper, I have no idea if that is temporary or if this pattern will continue. I suppose they could be ugly mutants... Also check out the movement on this one! This came from hitting the top of the plastic shoebox that they sprouted in. Crappy pic again my epilepsy meds make my hands shake... If you look at the split on the trunk, it looks like it might grow twisty, that would be cool!

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I poked a hole in the wet sand and put a squirt (from a condiment squirt bottle) of rooting hormone in each hole. Now we have all been taught to dip and sometimes soak but a guy I learned a lot of this from squirts it into the holes of the rooting medium and he has propagated for a living working at a lab. After this pic, I put in the boug cuttings and I use the same dome that @cmeg1 uses. Some of the JBP look pretty rough and that is because I am two weeks late getting them out of the tubes. They were green as could be the second week of June. Oh well...
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Now we wait! They are growing (as they have been since sprouting ) indoors under my T5 HO lights.
 
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