Miracle Grow Pearlite?

artao

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I'm new to bonsai and today was picking up stuff to mix up some soil. I got 100% clay cat litter and was going to buy some pearlite, but the only stuff they had at the store was Miracle Grow pearlite, which the bag says has fertilizer in it.
I'm assuming that's a bad thing, and as such didn't buy it.
If I'm mistaken, I'll go back and get it.
As I understand, I can use only clay cat litter. However, I was also planning to go gather some pine bark and/or some leaf mould. The one tree I have right now is a small (~9.5 inches tall) yamadori juniperus virginiana. There's also a little broken spruce (norway spruce, I think) that I plan on going back to get this week. It pretty much has no chance of surviving where it's at (ATV riders, whom I assume trampled it in the first place) and as such I may as well give it a go in my hands. No loss right? Only experience and, thus, learning.
Thanks! :D
 

choppychoppy

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I'm new to bonsai and today was picking up stuff to mix up some soil. I got 100% clay cat litter and was going to buy some pearlite, but the only stuff they had at the store was Miracle Grow pearlite, which the bag says has fertilizer in it.
I'm assuming that's a bad thing, and as such didn't buy it.
If I'm mistaken, I'll go back and get it.
As I understand, I can use only clay cat litter. However, I was also planning to go gather some pine bark and/or some leaf mould. The one tree I have right now is a small (~9.5 inches tall) yamadori juniperus virginiana. There's also a little broken spruce (norway spruce, I think) that I plan on going back to get this week. It pretty much has no chance of surviving where it's at (ATV riders, whom I assume trampled it in the first place) and as such I may as well give it a go in my hands. No loss right? Only experience and, thus, learning.
Thanks! :D


NO CAT LITTER IN THE US. Only overseas is the cat litter acceptable to use in bonsai. Don't use garbage like decayed leaves either. Get some actual soils.
 

artao

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NO CAT LITTER IN THE US. Only overseas is the cat litter acceptable to use in bonsai. Don't use garbage like decayed leaves either. Get some actual soils.
Why is that?
This is 100% clay, nice size (around 1/8" or a little bigger) .. no scent materials or anything else. Just clay.
I'm confused now.
Also, I've read several articles saying leaf mould is good, and perhaps even better than pine bark. Perhaps I should collect some live sphagnum and shred it for my organic component? ........ I just don't ...... "feel right" ..... about using 100% inorganic potting mix. ........ I'm also looking to talk to a local landscaping business about getting some crushed granite to mix in. They never seem to be in the office tho.
One thing I am RAPIDLY learning about bonsai is that there is contradicting information all over the place. Quite confusing.
 

choppychoppy

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Why is that?
This is 100% clay, nice size (around 1/8" or a little bigger) .. no scent materials or anything else. Just clay.
I'm confused now.
Also, I've read several articles saying leaf mould is good, and perhaps even better than pine bark. Perhaps I should collect some live sphagnum and shred it for my organic component? ........ I just don't ...... "feel right" ..... about using 100% inorganic potting mix. ........ I'm also looking to talk to a local landscaping business about getting some crushed granite to mix in. They never seem to be in the office tho.
One thing I am RAPIDLY learning about bonsai is that there is contradicting information all over the place. Quite confusing.


Good luck
 

TyroTinker

Shohin
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Why is that?
This is 100% clay, nice size (around 1/8" or a little bigger) .. no scent materials or anything else. Just clay.
I'm confused now.
Also, I've read several articles saying leaf mould is good, and perhaps even better than pine bark. Perhaps I should collect some live sphagnum and shred it for my organic component? ........ I just don't ...... "feel right" ..... about using 100% inorganic potting mix. ........ I'm also looking to talk to a local landscaping business about getting some crushed granite to mix in. They never seem to be in the office tho.
One thing I am RAPIDLY learning about bonsai is that there is contradicting information all over the place. Quite confusing.
You will always get varying opinions on soil choices. I would not try to create your own mix without trying the most common choices first. There is a LOT of science that goes into the most common mixes and a lot of voodoo magic into some homebrew mixes.....

I've heard that the clay is fired different so the stuff available in Europe doesn't seem to break down like the stuff over here does. U.S. cat litter turns to mush with watering and time.

No idea about leaf mould but I have read that you want something that is fully composted for your organic if you are putting origanic in for the sake of nutrients. The reason for that is the act of decomposing (most things) actually uses nitrogen and will your plant will have to compete.

Take what I'm saying with a grain of salt. I am still very new to this and I might have some things mixed up. I think I'm right BUT......

Hopefully someone with more experience will chime in.
 

sparklemotion

Shohin
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I'm new to bonsai and today was picking up stuff to mix up some soil. I got 100% clay cat litter and was going to buy some pearlite, but the only stuff they had at the store was Miracle Grow pearlite, which the bag says has fertilizer in it.
I'm assuming that's a bad thing, and as such didn't buy it.
If I'm mistaken, I'll go back and get it.
As I understand, I can use only clay cat litter. However, I was also planning to go gather some pine bark and/or some leaf mould.

Oh, you sweet summer child. Soil is basically the third rail of bonsai.

Some caveats: many people strongly hate Turface and perlite as soil components. They have their reasons (many are good). My advice here is assuming that you are a beginner on a budget with not-so-great trees.... In general when it comes to soil questions, you will probably be best served by reading/watching some of the many soil resources on the internet, and then asking questions based on your particular needs and the material they are growing. Look at the Soil Components resources here, Google for Colin Lewis, and Walter Pall's articles on soil. Watch the free Bonsai Mirai video on Soils.

The Miracle-Gro perlite will be fine.

In the US, most clay cat litters are "clumping" which is the opposite of what you want your soil to do. The European kitty litters that work well are either calcined clay (turface), or diatomaceous earth.

In the Midwest, you should be able to to find Oil-Dri and/or ThritySorb pretty easily. Both are calcined montmorillinite clay (so, generic Turface). In MN Fleet Farm carries Oil-Dri, O'Reilly auto parts has ThritySorb. Sift out the fines! (with the perlite as well).

Nigel Saunders (youtube) grows all his trees in 50-50 Turface and perlite. This is only one reason why he is controversial in "serious" bonsai circles (I think he has nice trees with decent roots.

Moving on from Turface, diatomaceous earth is the new hotness. NAPA 8822 floor dry (from NAPA stores) and Optisorb (O'Reilly) are popular products. Sift!

For "granite grit" look for grower-size chicken grit... But not the stuff made from seashells. It should be straight granite. Cherrystone #2 is my go to (TCC is a MN based company). Found at Fleet Farm, Tractor Supply, or anywhere else where people would buy stuff for their chickens.

Fine pine bark mulch is relatively easy to find at the right time of year (now) at Midwestern garden stores. You probably don't need it in a mix for trees that like to stay dry.

Best of luck to you!
 

artao

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Thanks all! I appreciate the help.
I have been watching a ton of videos and reading a ton of articles. I've downloaded a few ebooks as well, to read on my tablet. I'll certainly check out the stuff you've recommended, and have seen some it already as well. :)
This litter is not clumping, nor scented. Pure clay gravel. Red. I'll take a picture when it's light out. I'll also do a test of soaking to see how it breaks down, but having used similar stuff before it isn't too bad. I've never liked it as an actual cat litter, because it doesn't clump nor deal with odor.
I'll go back and grab the pearlite then tho, because it is quite cheap, and I've used pearlite before and liked it. And there's a landscaping place just a couple blocks away that I've been trying to get ahold of to maybe get a couple gallons cheap from their large stockpiles of crushed granite and decomposed bark. Just sift it right there and leave the fine stuff. I did buy screen for sifting as well. Eighth inch gap.
I'm pretty sure the hardware store has that oil-soak-up stuff such as you're talking about as well. Interesting that that's also suitable.
 

WOOB

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NO NO NO yes I know but. I have been down that road with Turface, Chicken Grit, orchid bark and on and on. The reality is roots are so important we work on the top of the tree and every so often get to repot and work on the roots and then give them so thought. I could not agree more watch Rayan's vido, look at "Boons" mix really good information. I finally said I am spending all this time and money on my bonsai and I am trying to be cheep with maybe the most important part the soil ... I am so much happier and my trees are with a pumas/acadoma/lava/chabasite 1/3 1/3 1/3 depending on the tree.
 

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JoeH

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I tried US cat litter back in the day and found it to end up soft and clumpy like wet clay. I use the Oil Dry from Napa along with top soil/potting mix and fine gravel. I need some moisture retention with 95 degree days in FLA in the summer. Its worked for me for the last 4 years.
 

Scooter9166 - 5a

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Oh, you sweet summer child. Soil is basically the third rail of bonsai.



Nigel Saunders (youtube) grows all his trees in 50-50 Turface and perlite. This is only one reason why he is controversial in "serious" bonsai circles (I think he has nice trees with decent roots.

Moving on from Turface, diatomaceous earth is the new hotness. NAPA 8822 floor dry (from NAPA stores) and Optisorb (O'Reilly) are popular products. Sift!

For "granite grit" look for grower-size chicken grit... But not the stuff made from seashells. It should be straight granite. Cherrystone #2 is my go to (TCC is a MN based company). Found at Fleet Farm, Tractor Supply, or anywhere else where people would buy stuff for their chickens.

Fine pine bark mulch is relatively easy to find at the right time of year (now) at Midwestern garden stores. You probably don't need it in a mix for trees that like to stay dry.

Best of luck to you!

Always wear a (good) mask when sifting.
 

WNC Bonsai

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To check your cat littler get it wet and then see if it holds together or crumbles when pinched. Most of this stuff is just dried clay and will turn back into real clay when wet. As for Turface there are different kinds. One is fine structured and one is coarser—avoid the fine stuff. Turface MVP is what you would want to use. Pumice is really good stuff and can be found at horticultural suppliers and hydroponics stores. I wrung my hands over this stuff for months then finally went with a mix of pumice, stalite (a heat expanded slate), and hardwood bark sifted from Nature’s Helper from Lowes. I use a mix of about 45% pumice, 45% stalite, 10% bark.
 

artao

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Yeah. Sifted a bunch of the litter then soaked it for a few hours then rinsed it over the screen then soaked it again (still soaking)
Not suitable for soil. Certainly breaking down pretty quick, tho some coarse stuff is remaining. I'd say no better than 50% of it, generously.
Oh well, it was cheap, and can be used for other stuff. Perhaps I could soak it long enough to completely dissolve it and then sculpt with it to make bonsai pots. LOL :p jk .............. I have some ACTUAL clay I can do that with, if I can find some space in a kiln. (which I'm pretty sure I can) ;)
Missed the store today to pick up the pearlite, and I'll try calling the landscaping place again tomorrow to see if I can get cheap crushed granite and decomposed bark. Perhaps the hardware store has that oil-dry stuff as well. Small town here, not many shopping options.
 

Lorax7

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The problem with perlite is that it doesn’t stay put. It’s buoyant. It floats all over the place every time you water the tree. On a day when you get torrential rain or moderate winds, it can exit the pot altogether. Neither pumice nor lava rock has this problem.
 

M. Frary

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Yeah. Sifted a bunch of the litter then soaked it for a few hours then rinsed it over the screen then soaked it again (still soaking)
Not suitable for soil. Certainly breaking down pretty quick, tho some coarse stuff is remaining. I'd say no better than 50% of it, generously.
Oh well, it was cheap, and can be used for other stuff. Perhaps I could soak it long enough to completely dissolve it and then sculpt with it to make bonsai pots. LOL :p jk .............. I have some ACTUAL clay I can do that with, if I can find some space in a kiln. (which I'm pretty sure I can) ;)
Missed the store today to pick up the pearlite, and I'll try calling the landscaping place again tomorrow to see if I can get cheap crushed granite and decomposed bark. Perhaps the hardware store has that oil-dry stuff as well. Small town here, not many shopping options.
You have a car parts store near You?
Like Napa or Auto Zone?
If so go get a bag of their floor dry.
It's diatomaceous earth.
Like $8.00 a bag here.
Quit messing with clay components of any kind. Even akadama.
You can add some perlite if you like. I have. Plus lava. That's it. It works great for me.
 

bonsaichile

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I'm new to bonsai and today was picking up stuff to mix up some soil. I got 100% clay cat litter and was going to buy some pearlite, but the only stuff they had at the store was Miracle Grow pearlite, which the bag says has fertilizer in it.
I'm assuming that's a bad thing, and as such didn't buy it.
If I'm mistaken, I'll go back and get it.
As I understand, I can use only clay cat litter. However, I was also planning to go gather some pine bark and/or some leaf mould. The one tree I have right now is a small (~9.5 inches tall) yamadori juniperus virginiana. There's also a little broken spruce (norway spruce, I think) that I plan on going back to get this week. It pretty much has no chance of surviving where it's at (ATV riders, whom I assume trampled it in the first place) and as such I may as well give it a go in my hands. No loss right? Only experience and, thus, learning.
Thanks! :D
Dude, you posted this in a different thread... That spruce HAS survived in that dune those ATVs and kids all these years. What it will NOT survive for sure is you collecting it this time of the year. You can tell yourself whatever to make you feel good about getting this tree, but the ONLY ethical thing to fo right now is to leave it alone and collect it next year. Patience is the name of the game. And if you are going yamadori collecting, there is an ethics to that too, and an environmental responsibility. These are living things. And in their own environment, way more resilient than you think. The bottom line: That tree has survived for years in that environment. You cannoy say it will die for sure. But if you uproot it now, without even knowing what kind of substrate to put it in, then it will die for sure. Leave it alone
 
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