Mirai Live Plagiarized?

Jluke33

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So this question has been floating around in my head for a while. First let me start by saying, Mirai has probably been the single greatest resource for knowledge and inspiration since I started my bonsai journey last year, and with the recent events surrounding the vandalization of their garden, I want to keep this thread extremely respectful.

I noticed on an instagram post at the turn of the year that they stated that one of the things they faced in 2020 was shameful plagiarizing of their Mirai Live platform. I've got my own ideas about who they could possibly be referring to, and again, I think that Ryan has really created something special with the entirety of Mirai as a business, but I really wonder if another bonsai professional deciding to create a live subscription service can really be considered plagiarism, especially in 2020 when almost everyone has been driven to use digital platforms.

My own opinion is that they can't be plagiarized because their content can't actually be copied (Ryan is one of a kind, and so are his trees, and there are few teachers in any profession I know of that are as knowledgeable and down to earth as him). What's everyone think? Is it fair for them to think no one else should start a subscription service online with live Q&A or not? my personal take is no bc these are tools of the modern age to connect with people, and while the idea of merging these tools with bonsai learning might have been a first with Mirai, if we really want enthusiam for the art to grow, we'll need more "copies" of this type of service, however similar or different they are.

Lastly, mods please remove if this is inappropriate or anything like that.
 
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Harunobu

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This thread only makes sense to have if in the OP contains a case for plagiarism, either made by Ryan or someone else. I don't know what happens on Instagram. I also don't know if Ryan said 'oh they kinda plagiarized us' as a half-joke. Or if this is a serious accusation.

A way in which I can imagine plagiarism occurring in bonsai is to copy word-for-wold an instruction video. Either working on some tree, or doing some lecture on design or horticulture. it would make more sense for someone else to sell Bonsai Mirai's content at a cheaper price. But that is just copyright infringement.

Now it sounds like some competitor came up with the same subscription model, but their own original content.

So is there an actual plagiarism accusation? And what is the evidence for it? There are also no sources in your post for people who actually want to check what you are saying.
 

Jluke33

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This thread only makes sense to have if in the OP contains a case for plagiarism, either made by Ryan or someone else. I don't know what happens on Instagram. I also don't know if Ryan said 'oh they kinda plagiarized us' as a half-joke. Or if this is a serious accusation.

A way in which I can imagine plagiarism occurring in bonsai is to copy word-for-wold an instruction video. Either working on some tree, or doing some lecture on design or horticulture. it would make more sense for someone else to sell Bonsai Mirai's content at a cheaper price. But that is just copyright infringement.

Now it sounds like some competitor came up with the same subscription model, but their own original content.

So is there an actual plagiarism accusation? And what is the evidence for it? There are also no sources in your post for people who actually want to check what you are saying.
You would have to follow them on instagram to see the post. it's from Jan 2 and the exact sentence is "Mirai Live was shamefully Plagiarized in 2020". They don't accuse anyone specifically, but there's some well known other professionals out there that have started up subscription services.
 

Jluke33

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Ya'll are lucky the other thread got locked.

Sorce
oh shoot. I'm really not out to stir up trouble. but by all means lock or delete this thread if it's for the best. I'm still new to the community and don't want things to go south. Like i said, Ryan is probably my favorite bonsai professional out there
 

MrWunderful

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Mirai is not the first subscription based online video education service. Maybe the first Bonsai related one, but not the first one.

I was under the impression someone was posting Mirai’s specific content and claiming it as their own, but I never saw an example.

I dont believe copying someone’s business model is “plagiarism”
 

canoeguide

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"There are no new ideas. There are only new ways of making them felt." - Audre Lorde

Unless someone is straight-up stealing words, images, or other intellectual content, it isn't plagiarism. Selling a subscription to a live stream isn't intellectual property. That's like saying a grocery store plagiarized another because they also chose to sell food.
 

Paradox

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Someone starting another online subscription for people to learn bonsai is not plagiarism, its not even copyright infringment.
Online learning platforms are common and used for learning on many topics.

Merely discussing the same topics, as in repotting pines, pruning pines is not.
Blatantly copying content and showing/repeating that content verbatim is plagiarism.
 

Jluke33

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Mirai is not the first subscription based online video education service. Maybe the first Bonsai related one, but not the first one.

I was under the impression someone was posting Mirai’s specific content and claiming it as their own, but I never saw an example.

I dont believe copying someone’s business model is “plagiarism”
Gotcha maybe I’m just making too many inferences based on the timing over other subscription services being released. Like I said. Utmost respect for pretty much all professionals, but mirai in particular and the response to all the stuff that happened at the end of the year was inspiring
 

keri-wms

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If there’s a lighter note to be found in all this, it has to be the minimal reaction to serious vandalism in one place, compared to the reaction to a leaky pipe in another! For the record both guys are awesome, just funny comparing that week’s videos. :)
 

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Without the specifics, there is no way to tell what Ryan is referring to. Plagiarism involves using someone's work or ideas without giving them credit. Copyright infringement involves use of literal content (specific words, images, etc). And that is about all I remember from my class in intellectual property law :)

I am not aware of anyone, directly or indirectly, doing what Ryan does, in that his content is so unique to him. Even if you copied his sequencing of videos... who is going to be your instructor? Maybe I just don't watch enough second-class bonsai videos :)
 

Jluke33

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If there’s a lighter note to be found in all this, it has to be the minimal reaction to serious vandalism in one place, compared to the reaction to a leaky pipe in another! For the record both guys are awesome, just funny comparing that week’s videos. :)
I thought the same, haha however I would probably be freaking out if I had that many trees in the south and couldn’t water em for like 6 days lol. Also if we’re lucky this might land us on the “talk sh*t get hit* section of unnamed professional’s podcast. I would be deeply honored lol
 
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Plagiarism involves using someone's work or ideas without giving them credit. Copyright infringement involves use of literal content (specific words, images, etc). And that is about all I remember from my class in intellectual property law :)

That is pretty much right, but there is some overlap between the two. You can plagiarize without violating copyright, and you can violate copyright without plagiarizing.

"Plagiarize (and plagiarism) comes from the Latin plagiarius “kidnapper.” This word, derived from the Latin plaga (“a net used by hunters to catch game”), extended its meaning in Latin to include a person who stole the words, rather than the children, of another. When plagiarius first entered English in the form plagiary, it kept its original reference to kidnapping, a sense that is now quite obsolete." (CREDIT https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/plagiarize last accessed January 12, 2021 ;))
 

keri-wms

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I thought the same, haha however I would probably be freaking out if I had that many trees in the south and couldn’t water em for like 6 days lol. Also if we’re lucky this might land us on the “talk sh*t get hit* section of unnamed professional’s podcast. I would be deeply honored lol
Yeahhhh, crossed my mind too tbh! But I reckon we’re safe-ish at the friendly ribbing end of the spectrum with this one! It’s part of the everyday fly on the wall style that’s being used, it’s not all trees - we get to meet Bjorn’s dog and Ryan’s generator and see other behind the scenes things. :D
 
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Damn, we just took the wife's music school online this year. Are we plagiarizing Fenders online school? Scotts bass lessons? Marty music?

I think it could even be more plagiarizing as unlike trees in different ag zones, the lessons aren't seasonal. You're going to start with posture, move on to identifying parts of your instrument, basic scales and fingerings and so on. You can bet your buns you'll be learning your Travis picking with some "Dust in the Wind" - just like every other online lesson. We may get a cease and desist once the circle of fifths comes up because we ain't the first!

Jokes aside, I think there is room for many online professionals and I am a firm believer that a rising tide lifts all ships.
 

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