mirai sale

Adair M

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I was just having this discussion with Scott Lee. There is more of a demand for conifers than deciduous trees. I realize the time it takes...think yamadori has influenced the decline as well?
Well, it is possible to take a yamadori out of the mountain, get it potted and styled and ready to show in 5 or 6 years. The Artisan’s Cup was full of them. Quality deciduous trees take a long, long time. Bill’s trees are 30+ years old.
 

Adair M

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I don't think Matt Ouwinga should be omitted from the conversation when it comes to deciduous trees. Many people know him as the pot guy, but he's been supplying quality trident (among other) seedlings for the community to start building. He's got a stellar collection in his own right with many more growing out in fields for future refinement.
You are correct about Matt and his maples. He sells the seedlings, for sure! He does have an incredible collection, he has a trident that went to Kokufu! But he doesn’t sell mature trees, and I was reluctant to say anything for fear that he’d get inundated with requests to sell trees with people saying that Adair told them to call!
 

thams

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You are correct about Matt and his maples. He sells the seedlings, for sure! He does have an incredible collection, he has a trident that went to Kokufu! But he doesn’t sell mature trees, and I was reluctant to say anything for fear that he’d get inundated with requests to sell trees with people saying that Adair told them to call!

Yep, I figured that's the reason he doesn't really flaunt his collection to the general public. I do wish he would share more photos of his trees though, since they're wonderful in their own right. I understand that some people just aren't into that though and I can respect that. Matt is also a stand up guy to deal with, but I think most people already know that about him.
 

JudyB

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I don't think Matt Ouwinga should be omitted from the conversation when it comes to deciduous trees. Many people know him as the pot guy, but he's been supplying quality trident (among other) seedlings for the community to start building. He's got a stellar collection in his own right with many more growing out in fields for future refinement.
Agreed, but he loves his nice trees so much he doesn't like to sell much.
 

coh

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I tuned in to the sale about 20 minutes after it started and probably at least half the trees were already sold. Kind of like when a Sam Miller pot shows up on the facebook auction sites - blink and it's too late.

Also hoped there would be more deciduous and perhaps some less developed/less expensive stock available, but I would have been too late anyway. That's OK, I',m still in sell mode this fall.
 

thams

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Agreed, but he loves his nice trees so much he doesn't like to sell much.

Ah, gotcha. I thought we were talking more about representation of deciduous trees in the hobby versus for sale. @Zach Smith pumps a steady amount of collected deciduous trees out into the hobby. Of course not on a national scale, but still worth mentioning.
 

yenling83

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I was very sad to see that there is one measly deciduous tree in the Mirai sale. Not neccesarily that I'm looking to buy a tree, but it just reinforces the lack of deciduous champions in the industry. 😢

Is true, it's just so much harder to find high quality Deciduous in the US because it takes so long to develop them, there's very limited Importation and a lot less Deciduous collecting going on. I believe over the next 20ish years we'll start to see some super high quality US container/field grown deciduous. Personally, i'm committed to growing extremely high quality deciduous and have been working on it over the last 5-7 years or so. But it's going to take me another 15-25 yrs minimum before I even have trunks i'm proud of. My goal is to grow the best quality in the world. I also hope we see more Deciduous collecting in the US. Would love to see more American Hornbeam and Chicksaw plum being collected.
 

Adair M

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Is true, it's just so much harder to find high quality Deciduous in the US because it takes so long to develop them, there's very limited Importation and a lot less Deciduous collecting going on. I believe over the next 20ish years we'll start to see some super high quality US container/field grown deciduous. Personally, i'm committed to growing extremely high quality deciduous and have been working on it over the last 5-7 years or so. But it's going to take me another 15-25 yrs minimum before I even have trunks i'm proud of. My goal is to grow the best quality in the world. I also hope we see more Deciduous collecting in the US. Would love to see more American Hornbeam and Chicksaw plum being collected.

And, that’s exactly the problem... it tales a generation just to produce a trunk! And THEN, you get to start on primary branches! Your kids “might” be able to enjoy them...
 

Owen Reich

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Is true, it's just so much harder to find high quality Deciduous in the US because it takes so long to develop them, there's very limited Importation and a lot less Deciduous collecting going on. I believe over the next 20ish years we'll start to see some super high quality US container/field grown deciduous. Personally, i'm committed to growing extremely high quality deciduous and have been working on it over the last 5-7 years or so. But it's going to take me another 15-25 yrs minimum before I even have trunks i'm proud of. My goal is to grow the best quality in the world. I also hope we see more Deciduous collecting in the US. Would love to see more American Hornbeam and Chicksaw plum being collected.

I believe I collected about 30 deciduous this year. My friend collected about 100. Trust me, I’m on it. About 10 will make good bonsai. Photos below are from the apex of an old Japanese maple grown in New Mexico by Connie G. I air layered it last summer.
 

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eryk2kartman

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I missed that sale already :( what was the price range?
 

Paulpash

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When you start production I hope you can share some photos, @Owen Reich and @yenling83. I've been growing my own material for 25 years now so I appreciate the patience and effort involved. It certainly fills a void - there are very few doing this in the UK. Good luck!
 

eryk2kartman

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Yeaa , i agree, i didnt miss much :) i guess the trees were stunning.......
 

rockm

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Is true, it's just so much harder to find high quality Deciduous in the US because it takes so long to develop them, there's very limited Importation and a lot less Deciduous collecting going on. I believe over the next 20ish years we'll start to see some super high quality U S container/field grown deciduous. Personally, i'm committed to growing extremely high quality deciduous and have been working on it over the last 5-7 years or so. But it's going to me another 15-25 yrs minimum before I even have trunks i'm proud of. My goal is to grow the best quality in the world. I also hope we see more Deciduous collecting in the US. Would love to see more American Hornbeam and Chicksaw plum being collected.
I don't think its true that no one is committed to D tree collection. I think there is plenty of it going on. Thing is, ancient collected conifers have sucked all the air out of the room as far as what's "fashionable" in North American bonsai for buyers Why do you think all those conifers sold so quickly and why does Ryan deal mostly in old collected western alpine conifers?

Zach Smith has been mentioned as one of the dedicated deciduous collectors.. He's been collecting quality D trees for literally DECADES. I have a Bald Cypress I. got from him back in the 90's. It's pretty far along in development. Probably could be seen as "finished" as far as that goes. Additionally, Alvaro at Cho Bonsai is digging up some spectacular old deciduous trees in Texas and the southwest.

Neither guy gets much credit for what they're doing. "Collected Conifer Inc." gets all the notice and envy from buyers with deep pockets. Those ancient twisted trees sell for big money and collectors can turn a hefty profit without much development work. Don't get me wrong, old North American conifers are spectacular for bonsai. They're flashy, people like shiny things...;-) Just take some wire and bend them into the shape you want...;-)

D trees take a BIT more time, but not a lot. You can get a pretty great bonsai in a few years from fast-growing species such as Cedar Elm (or any kind of elm), bald cypress, or apple, and a few more species.
 
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