Misting System for my Scot Pine

[Nishant]

IMO you're better off waiting till the 24th for the full moon.

If that is too late for your first frost it seems good to wait till next year, the first full moon after the solstice 2019.

S

Thanks Sorce for reply. When is the ideal time for re-potting Scot pines. Why do you advise waiting till 24-Sept as I am not exactly sure when the first frost will be? Is there any harm in re-potting in the first week of September?

I am sure you know the science behind "Timing Repotting"., so please share the knowledge.

 

[sorce]

Thanks Sorce for reply. When is the ideal time for re-potting Scot pines. Why do you advise waiting till 24-Sept as I am not exactly sure when the first frost will be? Is there any harm in re-potting in the first week of September?

I am sure you know the science behind "Timing Repotting"., so please share the knowledge.

0soyoung has been speaking of the "extended summer/fall Repotting window"..
Begins at the Solstice...June 21stish? And goes up until your frost cutoff date.

I am about done Repotting stuff I care about. I may risk one more if I get bored.

There is a Very real correlation between root growth and the moon.
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/root-talk.20606/

Here is 2 that I just potted...
A $79.99 White spruce I scored for $10!
And a maple I dug up from my grow bed.


These are 2 which...if I did during the waxing moon, I'm sure they would die.
They will take a long time to recover.

I have these under 5AM and 5pm 25min water/mist.

Though...someone just posted about 2PM watering being optimal as to cool the roots midday. So next year will be different!

S

 

[Nishant]

Sorce, 24 Sept could be a bit late here. Are pine roots active at this time of the year?

I have got a new pot that is made of slats, which I can easily open and examine the the health of roots and soil and moisture level. Spring time will be very difficult for me here as the weather is still too cold. I want to have the plant settled in it's new home by next spring so that I can do thread grafting, without any other concerns.

 

[M. Frary]

Sorce, 24 Sept could be a bit late here. Are pine roots active at this time of the year?

I have got a new pot that is made of slats, which I can easily open and examine the the health of roots and soil and moisture level. Spring time will be very difficult for me here as the weather is still too cold. I want to have the plant settled in it's new home by next spring so that I can do thread grafting, without any other concerns.

You dont thread graft pines.
Scots is best pitted in summer.
You're actually too far past the window to repot a Scots pine.
Wait until next summer if you want to keep the tree.
If you repot now it still won't be settled into it's new home by spring. If it lives maybe the spring after.
Sounds like you need to go and read the Scots pine threads here before you do anything else to your tree.

 

[Nishant]

Thanks Frary for the reply. By repotting, I don't mean any root pruning at all. Just want to put in a slightly larger pot. Is that risk? Please advise. I am new to Pines and Bonsai.

 

[Vance Wood]

Thanks Frary for the reply. By repotting, I don't mean any root pruning at all. Just want to put in a slightly larger pot. Is that risk? Please advise. I am new to Pines and Bonsai.

That's not repotting, that's slip potting and will cause no problem. No disturbance no foul.

 

[sorce]

It simply Doesn't need to be repotted...
If it did..you would want to work the roots and get it into a smaller pot, if anything.

Going into a large pot stands the risk of...
Well...there are Many risks associated with a slip/uppotting like this. Mainly it not getting water.

I would also figure at least a year between real repotting and grafting...

Ooo .sidetracked.

S

 

[Kendo]

Look at this system we have at local garden.

 

[Vance Wood]

Look at this system we have at local garden.

Thank you for sharing this, I in a smally way feel vindicated for doing the same thing with my watering system.

 

[Nishant]

It simply Doesn't need to be repotted...
If it did..you would want to work the roots and get it into a smaller pot, if anything.

Going into a large pot stands the risk of...
Well...there are Many risks associated with a slip/uppotting like this. Mainly it not getting water.

I would also figure at least a year between real repotting and grafting...

Ooo .sidetracked.

S

Why do you say it dies not need slip repotting? In summer it gets sometimes difficult. I feel with so much foliage it needs more roots.

 

[Vance Wood]

Why do you say it dies not need slip repotting? In summer it gets sometimes difficult. I feel with so much foliage it needs more roots.

What you feel and what you know needs to square with what you have learned or you are going to do something that kills your tree and ruins your effort. Look at all the bonsai you have seen in books and tell me according to what you feel do the trees have enough roots to support the foliage?

 

[sorce]

Why do you say it dies not need slip repotting? In summer it gets sometimes difficult. I feel with so much foliage it needs more roots.

@adair just did a rant in slip potting.

I say... Slip pptting is a Bonsai crime!
(Unless to a similar sized show pot for exhibition)

S

 

[Nishant]

What you feel and what you know needs to square with what you have learned or you are going to do something that kills your tree and ruins your effort. Look at all the bonsai you have seen in books and tell me according to what you feel do the trees have enough roots to support the foliage?

Quite often the top of soil is too dry when I come back in the evening even if I water it in morning quite well and also I see it loosing lots of needles only when summer peaks.

Third and most important is that I want to put the tree in a pot so that I can easily examine the compost when I have any doubts.

The current pot is heavy made of porcelain and has just one hole. The new one I have bought has sieve bottom and is barrel planter. I can easily pull one of the slats up and back again.

 

[Vance Wood]

Quite often the top of soil is too dry when I come back in the evening even if I water it in morning quite well and also I see it loosing lots of needles only when summer peaks.

Third and most important is that I want to put the tree in a pot so that I can easily examine the compost when I have any doubts.

The current pot is heavy made of porcelain and has just one hole. The new one I have bought has sieve bottom and is barrel planter. I can easily pull one of the slats up and back again.

The question is: Do you really want to make a bonsai out of this tree?? Dropping old needles is in the normal cycle of Pines, sometime they will drop a lot and sometimes it is too much water that can cause this. Where do you live? This too is important and no one is going to steel you little Scots Pine, just give us the sate and the climate zone.

 

[Nishant]

ah, Sorry Vance for not stating the location.
I live in London and this is my Pine tree in question.

 

[Adair M]

That current pot is plenty big enough.

The problem is NOT too small of a pot.

The problem IS too much upper crown foliage.

That big upper crown is shading out all the lower branches. Without sunlight the lower branches will wither and die. This is true too for any interior branches on the upper portion of the tree. Foliage close to the trunk, but under the circumference of the outer canopy, will die off. This leaves you with a ball shaped exterior with a hollow interior, with long spindly branches looking like the spokes of a bicycle supporting the green canopy.

If you want to turn this into a bonsai, it needs selective pruning to open it up, key branches selected, pads of foliage created, etc. This will allow sunlight to enter the interior of the tree, stimulating backbudding.

From your questions and discussion on this thread I can tell you do not have the knowledge and experience necessary to do the things I just described on your own. I’m not putting you down, I’m just saying you don’t know what you don’t know.

Either taking this tree to a workshop or having someone come to your place for a styling session would be the best thing. This tree is far overgrown and it will take some time to bring it back. For this, experience is required to know how trees will react to heavy pruning. When this tree gets worked properly, it will not immediately “look pretty”. But the structure should be placed so that as it fills back out, it will start looking better.

I remember when I gave a class on JBP and I taught the students how to decandle. And pull old needles for balance. Quite frankly, many of the trees looked like plucked chickens when they were done. To one student I said that their tree looked really good! To which they said, “Really? I spent $200 on this! It now looks like trash!” I told them, “Just wait. Put it in full sun, start fertility in a month, keep it watered. Bring it back here to my next class in November, and if you don’t like it, I will buy it from you for $300!” Well, they did. Bring it back for the next class, that is. But they would not sell me the tree! Their words, “I would never have thought it would do this...”

My point is, seek expert instruction.

 

[Vance Wood]

That current pot is plenty big enough.

The problem is NOT too small of a pot.

The problem IS too much upper crown foliage.

That big upper crown is shading out all the lower branches. Without sunlight the lower branches will wither and die. This is true too for any interior branches on the upper portion of the tree. Foliage close to the trunk, but under the circumference of the outer canopy, will die off. This leaves you with a ball shaped exterior with a hollow interior, with long spindly branches looking like the spokes of a bicycle supporting the green canopy.

If you want to turn this into a bonsai, it needs selective pruning to open it up, key branches selected, pads of foliage created, etc. This will allow sunlight to enter the interior of the tree, stimulating backbudding.

From your questions and discussion on this thread I can tell you do not have the knowledge and experience necessary to do the things I just described on your own. I’m not putting you down, I’m just saying you don’t know what you don’t know.

Either taking this tree to a workshop or having someone come to your place for a styling session would be the best thing. This tree is far overgrown and it will take some time to bring it back. For this, experience is required to know how trees will react to heavy pruning. When this tree gets worked properly, it will not immediately “look pretty”. But the structure should be placed so that as it fills back out, it will start looking better.

I remember when I gave a class on JBP and I taught the students how to decandle. And pull old needles for balance. Quite frankly, many of the trees looked like plucked chickens when they were done. To one student I said that their tree looked really good! To which they said, “Really? I spent $200 on this! It now looks like trash!” I told them, “Just wait. Put it in full sun, start fertility in a month, keep it watered. Bring it back here to my next class in November, and if you don’t like it, I will buy it from you for $300!” Well, they did. Bring it back for the next class, that is. But they would not sell me the tree! Their words, “I would never have thought it would do this...”

My point is, seek expert instruction.

I agree, I have been trying to provoke questions from the OP on this matter and I get crickets in response. So yes you are right, he does not know and does not know--- he does not know. The evidence of his eyes has eluded him, and he is currently unaware of what needs to be done. The one burning question I had when I first became interested in bonsai was: HOW DID THEY GET THE ROOTS TO SUPPORT THAT TREE IN SUCH A LTTLE POT? In stead there is silence and a move to putting the tree in a larger pot---with what goal in mind?

 

[Nishant]

Thanks Adair and Vance.

Just one correction that I know I am new to Bonsai.
I bought this tree last year from a private sale, not as Bonsai but as a tree. I love Pines in all form.

I am quite happy with this large foliage on the tree until I learn about the Pines through small experiments I will for next three years. My goal is to keep the plant strong and lush until then.

I don't think I can call an expert. That will cost dear and anyway I am happy with this form as well. I might never change this tree shape, to be honest. So that's why I want to give a it a new larger pot, which is porous and can be examined by opening out the slats.

I hope I have answered some of the questions that were outstanding

 

[Vance Wood]

Thanks Adair and Vance.

Just one correction that I know I am new to Bonsai.
I bought this tree last year from a private sale, not as Bonsai but as a tree. I love Pines in all form.

I am quite happy with this large foliage on the tree until I learn about the Pines through small experiments I will for next three years. My goal is to keep the plant strong and lush until then.

I don't think I can call an expert. That will cost dear and anyway I am happy with this form as well. I might never change this tree shape, to be honest. So that's why I want to give a it a new larger pot, which is porous and can be examined by opening out the slats.

I hope I have answered some of the questions that were outstanding

In examining the roots through the slats what do you expect to discover and what do you plan to do about it? To what end are your efforts focused? If you are not interested in bonsai say so, I am not interested in just another landscape tree and I will gladly abandon this thread. The easy thing to do is plant the thing in the ground and leave it alone.

 

[Nishant]

I want to be checking that I am not over watering or under watering? When I bought this, the seller was an experienced Bonsai person. I bought five of this plants.
He said it is a Bonsai.

Its just that unless a tree does not show movements etc, people don't call it a Bonsai. I disagree with that but I want to keep that disagreement to myself. After all whats there in classifying a tree as Bonsai or not a Bonsai.

I believe this 30 year old tree will need the same sort of knowledge that typical Bonsai need. What say?