Moisture Retention Layer / Top Soil

[just.wing.it]

Last year I used chopped up sphagnum moss on most of my trees.
It seems to work well.
I will probably use it again on some trees this year.

My issues with sphagnum are, it gets kinda slimy and nasty after a while, if the birds don't steal it first...
I think it may also encourage birds to dig in pots, while they never touch my pots with exposed inorganic substrate...

I currently don't have any sphagnum moss, and I haven't been anywhere to get some...but I had a few trees to repot the other day...

I recently learned via a Ryan Neil Video, about his take on Turface.
He said it is great at holding water but it doesn't give it up....made me think that it would make a good Moisture Retention Layer / Top Soil.
I have a small bag of Turface that I bought last year, and used a bit as an additive in a few tree's mixes...

I want to stop using Turface in the substrate, I'm now trying Lava, Haydite, Pumice, and DE in various mixes...

So I decided to put it on a few trees as a Moisture Retention Layer /Top Soil, about .5 -1 inch thick...
It does lay down nicely and hold lots of water, and large amounts of water also pass straight through it like its not even there...I have it on top of a lava / haydite mix, so far.
We'll see how it goes.

Anyone else do this?
Or something else?

Live moss, I know is popular...

Ryan mentioned finely chopped sphagnum and ground live moss to create the condition for moss to grow...which sounds like something I want to try...

What do you do???

 

[River's Edge]

Last year I used chopped up sphagnum moss on most of my trees.
It seems to work well.
I will probably use it again on some trees this year.

My issues with sphagnum are, it gets kinda slimy and nasty after a while, if the birds don't steal it first...
I think it may also encourage birds to dig in pots, while they never touch my pots with exposed inorganic substrate...

I currently don't have any sphagnum moss, and I haven't been anywhere to get some...but I had a few trees to repot the other day...

I recently learned via a Ryan Neil Video, about his take on Turface.
He said it is great at holding water but it doesn't give it up....made me think that it would make a good Moisture Retention Layer / Top Soil.
I have a small bag of Turface that I bought last year, and used a bit as an additive in a few tree's mixes...

I want to stop using Turface in the substrate, I'm now trying Lava, Haydite, Pumice, and DE in various mixes...

So I decided to put it on a few trees as a Moisture Retention Layer /Top Soil, about .5 -1 inch thick...
It does lay down nicely and hold lots of water, and large amounts of water also pass straight through it like its not even there...I have it on top of a lava / haydite mix, so far.
We'll see how it goes.

Anyone else do this?
Or something else?

Live moss, I know is popular...

Ryan mentioned finely chopped sphagnum and ground live moss to create the condition for moss to grow...which sounds like something I want to try...

What do you do???

I use the chopped sphagnum for shorter periods of time. I too found that it begins to look pretty bad over time. So i have limited it to protecting surface roots after repotting or in areas that i wish to promote root growth. I have used grit on the surface to shield the bonsai mix from the effects of wind drying the surface. It seemed to help.
I like your reasoning on using the turface on the surface for water retention purposes. I would be interested to hear the results. Not sure if the results would be applicable further from the moon
Also i have not heard of Haydite. what properties does it have?

 

[0soyoung]

You will be disappointed.
It dries quickly.

 

[sorce]

I would be wary of compaction and eventual run off.

I been having great success with found moss. Dirt or clean, I collect it by the "whatever container I can find" fulls wherever I can.

Mmmmmmmm......moss!

Sorce

 

[Captnignit]

Part of why moss is so great is that it stabilizes the soil so water won't push it around. Turface wouldn't have this benefit unfortunately. A decent bed of moss also acts as filtration on whatever enters the system, debatable how impactful this might be but it's a nice to have.

 

[just.wing.it]

Part of why moss is so great is that it stabilizes the soil so water won't push it around. Turface wouldn't have this benefit unfortunately. A decent bed of moss also acts as filtration on whatever enters the system, debatable how impactful this might be but it's a nice to have.

Wouldn't filter out fertilizer would it?

 

[just.wing.it]

I use the chopped sphagnum for shorter periods of time. I too found that it begins to look pretty bad over time. So i have limited it to protecting surface roots after repotting or in areas that i wish to promote root growth. I have used grit on the surface to shield the bonsai mix from the effects of wind drying the surface. It seemed to help.
I like your reasoning on using the turface on the surface for water retention purposes. I would be interested to hear the results. Not sure if the results would be applicable further from the moon
Also i have not heard of Haydite. what properties does it have?

As far as I can tell, haydite (expanded shale) is just like Diatomaceous Earth, but I get a larger variety of particle size, than with DE...haydite is generally larger.
It also seems to have less dust than DE, when sifting.

 

[Stan Kengai]

@just.wing.it I too have had trouble with sphagnum. I tried for several years using high quality long strand NZ in a layer 1 strand thick. And chopped sphagnum. I always had bugs nesting under the moss, likely feeding on fertilizer remnants. Birds would steal the strands for nesting and later in the season birds and chipmunks digging in the moss after bugs.

I have been doing similar to you, but not in such a thick layer. I bought some "shohin soil" from House of Bonsai on Ebay several years ago and found that it is not good as a substrate except in the smallest of pots (say 3 inches and under). So I've been using it as a topping layer just thick enough to cover the substrate material. It seems help hold in moisture for an additional 4 to 8 hours.

 

[just.wing.it]

You will be disappointed.
It dries quickly.

But it may still keep the actual substrate, below where roots are, moist...yes?
At least until I get home late on a long day at work...
That's the real goal...

 

[just.wing.it]

@just.wing.it I too have had trouble with sphagnum. I tried for several years using high quality long strand NZ in a layer 1 strand thick. And chopped sphagnum. I always had bugs nesting under the moss, likely feeding on fertilizer remnants. Birds would steal the strands for nesting and later in the season birds and chipmunks digging in the moss after bugs.

I have been doing similar to you, but not in such a thick layer. I bought some "shohin soil" from House of Bonsai on Ebay several years ago and found that it is not good as a substrate except in the smallest of pots (say 3 inches and under). So I've been using it as a topping layer just thick enough to cover the substrate material. It seems help hold in moisture for an additional 4 to 8 hours.

Yeah!
That's what I need !
I'll keep you posted on the Turface, come summertime.

 

[just.wing.it]

Also, the Turface doesn't look half bad either.

 

[PiñonJ]

Last year I used chopped up sphagnum moss on most of my trees.
It seems to work well.
I will probably use it again on some trees this year.

My issues with sphagnum are, it gets kinda slimy and nasty after a while, if the birds don't steal it first...
I think it may also encourage birds to dig in pots, while they never touch my pots with exposed inorganic substrate...

I currently don't have any sphagnum moss, and I haven't been anywhere to get some...but I had a few trees to repot the other day...

I recently learned via a Ryan Neil Video, about his take on Turface.
He said it is great at holding water but it doesn't give it up....made me think that it would make a good Moisture Retention Layer / Top Soil.
I have a small bag of Turface that I bought last year, and used a bit as an additive in a few tree's mixes...

I want to stop using Turface in the substrate, I'm now trying Lava, Haydite, Pumice, and DE in various mixes...

So I decided to put it on a few trees as a Moisture Retention Layer /Top Soil, about .5 -1 inch thick...
It does lay down nicely and hold lots of water, and large amounts of water also pass straight through it like its not even there...I have it on top of a lava / haydite mix, so far.
We'll see how it goes.

Anyone else do this?
Or something else?

Live moss, I know is popular...

Ryan mentioned finely chopped sphagnum and ground live moss to create the condition for moss to grow...which sounds like something I want to try...

What do you do???

I use Ryan's technique, 50:50 sphagnum:collected moss
It works great.

Wouldn't filter out fertilizer would it?

No, the moss dies wherever fertilizer sits on it (re-grows when fert is removed).

 

[Captnignit]

IMO the most important part of it is the soil stabilization. Roots don't grow in soil that shifts around. We're already dealing with a very limited space so we need to maximize what we have available.

 

[just.wing.it]

I use Ryan's technique, 50:50 sphagnum:collected moss
It works great.

No, the moss dies wherever fertilizer sits on it (re-grows when fert is removed).

What about water soluble fert?
It couldn't be filtered by moss could it?...not substantially, right?
I was joking at first, but then I thought more...like what if....?

 

[just.wing.it]

IMO the most important part of it is the soil stabilization. Roots don't grow in soil that shifts around. We're already dealing with a very limited space so we need to maximize what we have available.

My shit's stable homie!

That's what I'm sayin, Captn!

 

[just.wing.it]

@M. Frary
What about you?

 

[River's Edge]

As far as I can tell, haydite (expanded shale) is just like Diatomaceous Earth, but I get a larger variety of particle size, than with DE...haydite is generally larger.
It also seems to have less dust than DE, when sifting.

In this neck of the woods the shale products available seem to break down quickly to very fine particles and interfere with drainage. Although many have tried, most have quit.

 

[StoneCloud]

Isn't that what gluing rocks to the soil is for????

Moisture retention?

 

[AZbonsai]

You say it retains moisture well, does it wick moisture from the substrate below?

 

[M. Frary]

I put a bright colored piece of cotton cloth on trees that dry out too fast during the day. I lay it over the top of the soil and water it thoroughly when I water the tree. I only have to use it on one tree. My hawthorn. It's a water sucking beast by midsummer with all of its foliage.