Mom's thoughts!

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irene_b

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Thoughts By Mom



Ah Where to begin….In the beginning….Nope too much history.
I guess the place to start is here at Bonsainut.

I have been a Member of several sites of Bonsai and each covers a different aspect of what I look for in Bonsai.
I have been doing Bonsai for 38 Years and until the past few years have been what most call a Bonsai Hermit.

Those that know me on a more personal level will tell you that I have no great Bonsai, and they also know the story of why I don’t.
I have thought about going back to being the Hermit…(Less stress and a hell of a lot less abusive to just read the books and the Mags.)

I am also fairly new to the Club scene as well (I hate pileofticks almost as much as forums) and have met some interesting folks.

I have, to date around 100 folks at Bonsai Sites that call me Mom.
This is to me the correct term for who I am and what I believe in.

My online Buddy Ron Martin started the Mom thing and it has escalated to where it is now.M.O.M. is the initials of who I am.” Minister On Monitor”.
My Beliefs are just that “Mine”, but I will chat with you if you are unsure of what you believe in. (And I also pray for you as well)

Here at Bnut we have a world wide web of folks. Borderless.
Now we all know that when 2 or more of us artsy fartsy types get together it can get creative (to say the least).
Discussion and cussing are for the most part the way it is and this is normal and allows each person their say.

This is just One of the many ways the Newbie (Not said in a derogative meaning) learns.
But (and here it comes) when you are taught something in life, your first teacher is generally speaking your Mom. Now each of us have had one (Mom) in our walk so far.
Some are Great and some are not so Great but they were our first teacher and what they taught was that each of us matter.
I was taught Bonsai in the truest form by 2 teachers My Mom who loved to Garden and John Naka.
As children we are taught to share.

John Naka taught “Borderless Bonsai”
My Mother taught me to share.
Ron Martin bless his soul was a old hand at that, Teaching.
Many a time in chat a “Noob” would come in asking a million Questions and Ron would answer each and every one.
After weeks of watching him take that time to answer the same questions day after day I just had to ask “How many times have you answered that same question?”
His reply stays with me to this day (and I pray that I will never forget it!)
“We have all been there! “

In order to learn you have to be open for the lesson.
In order to teach you have to have been the student.
Here at Bnut what I see the most is many Noobs asking for guidance.
As a Mom I try to teach sharing.
The term “Noobs” is for those under 10 years in Bonsai.
We have here at Bnut folks that can answer that have done Bonsai for many years but for the most part they no longer post.
How many have asked why they don’t post anymore?

Myself I am tired of the self praise, breaking the arm pats on the back, by someone who is a Noob.
No one cares what your job is or what you attach your name to….
What folks come here for is to learn about Bonsai and not so much about the perfect display or the perfect picture or the perfect virt!
Greg you as the HeadNut here need to start doing some serious work to get this site where you really want it.
And some of you folks need to get over thinking that what you say is the end all of a topic.
Now bann me for speaking my mind!

MOM
(If it offends ya "oh well shit happens”)
 
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Irene,
I know your feelings are hurt about the Mom thing. Don't let it happen. Sometimes we just have to pick and choose who we show affection for and in what way. Don't take it personally. I used to know a guy whom you could call every name in the book except S.O.B. He wore his antipathy for that name on his sleeve and would fight without comment if you used it on him because you were insulting his mother. Odd that M.F. didn't bother him in the least...oh well, it was his prerogative and we just thought he was a little loony.

The point is that each individual comes to the table with their own demons. Some might have had a happy childhood and the word Mom means all the good things in life. Some may have had a bad childhood and that name means all the bad.

Vice-versa, some may have had a wonderful childhood and that name is reserved for the one woman in their lives who helped make it so. Some may have had a bad childhood and that name means all the good things they never had.

Don't worry about it. It suits you to think of yourself as Mom. I don't think of you that way because of our times in chat in the past. Hard to think of someone as mom when you've been flirting online, if you know what i mean ;)

Just fight the good fight and hang in there. Post another tree and let's give a go at working on it again.
 

Bonsai Nut

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Hosting a forum successfully is an exercise in patience and selective blindness :) Unfortunately people tend to focus on what others are saying, instead of what they are saying. So forums can be huge pools of hypocrisy where everyone is pointing fingers at everyone else for bad behavior. Though I am far from perfect, I try to apply selective reading skills; if I don't agree, I skip over content and don't let it affect me personally. I try to maintain a light editing finger and delete as few posts as possible - though every now and again I will close a thread or delete it entirely if it becomes too difficult or time consuming to figure out.

I know, as probably everyone on this site knows, that many/most bonsai practitioners do not frequent Internet forum sites, including publically acknowleged bonsai "masters". I would also like to think that there are many private bonsai masters who do not show their trees at exhibitions, just as I like to think that some of the world's best bonsai may never be seen by the public. This can be a very private, almost zen-like art form. It can also be a technical free-for-all where people are competing in head-to-head "speed-styling" of trees at conventions. Is one approach better than another just because I prefer one?

This site is all about interacting with people of dissimilar experience and/or opinions. You can only learn when you encounter something new - new thoughts, ideas or approaches. So to be successful I think you need to be able to keep your ego in check, keep a thick skin, and be able to absorb and distill information. Keep the good, toss out the bad. As far as your comment about the self-proclaimed know-it-alls: how much do you think those people are learning? Where will they be 5 years from now in their knowledge or skills? However before we point fingers always look in the mirror first. I am guilty of indulging my ego on this site and have tried to learn from it. There is a big difference between calling yourself "mom" versus calling someone else "son", for example :) Personally I couldn't care less if you called me son but if other people don't like it don't use the term with them. However just because they don't want to play in your sandbox don't think it reflects on you personally. You will never be friends with everyone, even if you are the friendliest person in the world.

Personally, 99% of the things that get people riled up on this site I don't care about. I just skip over it. I try to be an example of the behavior that I want to see on this site. I'm not always the best example, and people don't always follow my lead, but I hope it is something that gives the site it's own unique personality. Though I might not like or agree with everyone, I try to respect them all.
 

irene_b

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Irene,
I know your feelings are hurt about the Mom thing.

Don't worry about it. It suits you to think of yourself as Mom. I don't think of you that way because of our times in chat in the past. Hard to think of someone as mom when you've been flirting online, if you know what i mean ;)

Just fight the good fight and hang in there. Post another tree and let's give a go at working on it again.


LOL My feelings have not been hurt!
I consider the source and have a good laugh.
Hmmm I do have that shimp that needs something done....
MOM
 

irene_b

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Hosting a forum successfully is an exercise in patience and selective blindness :) Unfortunately people tend to focus on what others are saying, instead of what they are saying. So forums can be huge pools of hypocrisy where everyone is pointing fingers at everyone else for bad behavior. Though I am far from perfect, I try to apply selective reading skills; if I don't agree, I skip over content and don't let it affect me personally. I try to maintain a light editing finger and delete as few posts as possible - though every now and again I will close a thread or delete it entirely if it becomes too difficult or time consuming to figure out.

I know, as probably everyone on this site knows, that many/most bonsai practitioners do not frequent Internet forum sites, including publically acknowleged bonsai "masters". I would also like to think that there are many private bonsai masters who do not show their trees at exhibitions, just as I like to think that some of the world's best bonsai may never be seen by the public. This can be a very private, almost zen-like art form. It can also be a technical free-for-all where people are competing in head-to-head "speed-styling" of trees at conventions. Is one approach better than another just because I prefer one?

This site is all about interacting with people of dissimilar experience and/or opinions. You can only learn when you encounter something new - new thoughts, ideas or approaches. So to be successful I think you need to be able to keep your ego in check, keep a thick skin, and be able to absorb and distill information. Keep the good, toss out the bad. As far as your comment about the self-proclaimed know-it-alls: how much do you think those people are learning? Where will they be 5 years from now in their knowledge or skills? However before we point fingers always look in the mirror first. I am guilty of indulging my ego on this site and have tried to learn from it. There is a big difference between calling yourself "mom" versus calling someone else "son", for example :) Personally I couldn't care less if you called me son but if other people don't like it don't use the term with them. However just because they don't want to play in your sandbox don't think it reflects on you personally. You will never be friends with everyone, even if you are the friendliest person in the world.

Personally, 99% of the things that get people riled up on this site I don't care about. I just skip over it. I try to be an example of the behavior that I want to see on this site. I'm not always the best example, and people don't always follow my lead, but I hope it is something that gives the site it's own unique personality. Though I might not like or agree with everyone, I try to respect them all.
Greg Son,
I am a true Southern Woman and all boys younger than myself are called Son (I dislke the negative Sonny) and all older fellas are Sir....or sweetheart or honey.
And I do know that your job is not an easy one but how many are walking away and why.
Mom
 
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Ken Duncan

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Dear Mom, Some people will never understand US Southerners, but I like to think that on matter where you come from in the South, we understand each other and that is something special.
I liked to be called "Son" and "Buba" (Buba Southern slang for Brother) makes me fell like family.
Ken
 

nsmar4211

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Thanks Mom :)

And boy do I miss Ron........yes he answered everything with humor at that.

I have the privledge of being in an area with several great bonsai people/"masters". And none of those people would ever one up.......insult a newbie......pat themselves on the back...... it's called humbleness and IMHO, only the truly great have it. People who have to constantly do the "do you know who I am?" "I'm the best/smartest/whatever" "do you know what I've done?" ...... are the insecure ones. I must go and thank my local guys for this at the next meeting, its something that means a lot to a newbie. Greatness should be shown in actions.....not in bragging or insulting :).

Oh......and I've said this before.......but realize that the newbie you may be insulting today is the future of bonsai. Scary? maybe. But that's the way it is......you too will pass on... treat everyone with respect and humbleness.

You wanna call me daughter? Go right ahead. Just don't call me late for dinner :). Area colloquialisms don't always come across on the internet.....but it makes it fun. Shoot, I call people "sweetie" at work... but it's not an insult nor is it a "line". Just a habit. :) Son.......mom...... maam...... sir...... miss......madam...boss.....whatever...... not meant to be rude :).
 

john schacherer

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im new to the bnuts. joined about the time the stone with the horsehead on it was being discused. i found thad to be a enjoyable discussion. even made me laugh. i had a good feeling about that group who were discusing the topic. next a member suggested a contest match the tree with a pot. put a lot of his time and effort into it. gave a nice gift. but when it was over i had the feeling some people thought their pot should have been picked. made me think try to do something nice and look what happens. the yamadori discussion could have been a educational discusion. a member came up with a interesting topic and look what happens. the outstanding bonsai from nursery stock was another good topic. look what happened. the bnuts has has some good intelligent people in it . we are all bonsai people (i think) we enjoy the peace and harmony of nature. lets bring that to to the club and see what hieghts that takes us to. lets keep that good sense of humor going. lets make this a club everybody on this little planet wants to belong to. so smile when you answer the phone the person on the other end will know it. lets not let nicknmes we might get dinged with bother us. lets let members from others parts of the country or world write the way they the talk. it makes me smile. john
 

Rick Moquin

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I wasn't going to respond to this thread, but after allowing the thread to develop it seems that I might have been the cause of such a debate.

The thread that caused all this mess, was an honest to goodness question in good faith. As mentioned it had nothing to do with who won or not, well at least not for me anyway.

Tom started a good topic and made in interesting, even offered a prize ((which ensured greater participation) and if you don't think so, how many people respond with virts when asked)). It was interesting to see all the entries, what was more interesting was the results. In order to learn any thing from this particular event, we needed to know the rationale used behind the results for all to learn. Pot selection is as subjective as art. It is extremely difficult to do right. The judges did in fact chime in and now we have all learned from this experience and are better informed. The attached pic was a pot I considered for a long time, before choosing my second submission. Although I liked my second submission, this would of been a better selection, well at least from the judges perspective.

Now back to the subject that spurred this thread. Irene is upset, she is not sure why folks would be upset, because she believes she has done nothing wrong? and... perhaps not

That is the fine line that separates harassment and joking.

I used to call my troops "my little lambs" (spurred from a movie some 20 yrs ago, about the first African American that attended a military college. I don't remember the actors but a term from the deputy commandant (Nicknamed "Bear" was nobody f... with my little lambs))

I used that term as I was protective of my troops and nobody f...... with them, right up until the day that my 2 I/C brought forward the point, the boys don't like it. From that point on, I never coined that phrase again, because that was the right thing to do.

Now Irene on occasion has a habit of jumping into threads with one or two words, and at times incites what ensues. Some of these remarks are completely out of place. In the particular thread in question, a legitimate question was asked, to educate the mass, and IMO a condescending remark ensued. It doesn't matter what the majority think, it is a moot point.

The point was made I do not wish to be addressed in that fashion, and from Irene to refrain from any and all further references. It doesn't matter what the members think, it is irrelevant. I was offended, didn't and don't like the term, as many others for that matter, and they mentioned it.

Now in closing, if we are all adults, it is to suck up and mend the errors of our way pure and simple. No ifs ands or buts, harassment is harassment and nobody says that folks need to become enemies after such confrontations.

The caveat, is that regardless of the intent, the offender has to curb their ways period when confronted with the request, period. Those are the rules that we as a society have formulated to ensure everyone can enjoy life, free of harassment. We may not like it but as responsible adults we should endeavour to apply them at all times.

... and I believe that is all that needs to be said wrt this matter.

PS: I spent 32 years in the Navy, so please do not tell me to get a thicker skin.
 

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irene_b

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I wasn't going to respond to this thread, but after allowing the thread to develop it seems that I might have been the cause of such a debate.

Not in the least.
I felt it was time to explain the MOM so that each person would know what the initals mean plus make some points clear on the feedback and what I felt needed to happen here.


The thread that caused all this mess, was an honest to goodness question in good faith. As mentioned it had nothing to do with who won or not, well at least not for me anyway.

Tom started a good topic and made in interesting, even offered a prize ((which ensured greater participation) and if you don't think so, how many people respond with virts when asked)). It was interesting to see all the entries, what was more interesting was the results. In order to learn any thing from this particular event, we needed to know the rationale used behind the results for all to learn. Pot selection is as subjective as art. It is extremely difficult to do right. The judges did in fact chime in and now we have all learned from this experience and are better informed.
I agree.


The attached pic was a pot I considered for a long time, before choosing my second submission. Although I liked my second submission, this would of been a better selection, well at least from the judges perspective.

Now back to the subject that spurred this thread. Irene is upset, she is not sure why folks would be upset, because she believes she has done nothing wrong? and... perhaps not

No I am not upset! Susie listed the facts on terms very well. I am a Southern woman who has used the terms all my life and I am not about to get into the political right or wrong of it!

That is the fine line that separates harassment and joking.

A term of speech does not make it harassment.

I used to call my troops "my little lambs" (spurred from a movie some 20 yrs ago, about the first African American that attended a military college. I don't remember the actors but a term from the deputy commandant (Nicknamed "Bear" was nobody f... with my little lambs))

I used that term as I was protective of my troops and nobody f...... with them, right up until the day that my 2 I/C brought forward the point, the boys don't like it. From that point on, I never coined that phrase again, because that was the right thing to do.

Now Irene on occasion has a habit of jumping into threads with one or two words, and at times incites what ensues. Some of these remarks are completely out of place. In the particular thread in question, a legitimate question was asked, to educate the mass, and IMO a condescending remark ensued. It doesn't matter what the majority think, it is a moot point.

The point was made I do not wish to be addressed in that fashion, and from Irene to refrain from any and all further references. It doesn't matter what the members think, it is irrelevant. I was offended, didn't and don't like the term, as many others for that matter, and they mentioned it.

For those who object to my normal speech would not a pm have been a better means than on the forum?

Now in closing, if we are all adults, it is to suck up and mend the errors of our way pure and simple. No ifs ands or buts, harassment is harassment and nobody says that folks need to become enemies after such confrontations.

The caveat, is that regardless of the intent, the offender has to curb their ways period when confronted with the request, period. Those are the rules that we as a society have formulated to ensure everyone can enjoy life, free of harassment. We may not like it but as responsible adults we should endeavour to apply them at all times.

... and I believe that is all that needs to be said wrt this matter.

Who is Politically Correct Nowdays?

PS: I spent 32 years in the Navy, so please do not tell me to get a thicker skin.
LOL We call the hubby "Old Salt" also many years in the Navy!
Irene
 

irene_b

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Ken thank You Very Much...
Being politically correct is a pain in the rear!
Mom
 

irene_b

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Thank You Daughter!
Said very well!
And yes I do miss our chat buddy!
Mom
 

irene_b

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Bob, son you are a hoot! LOL
Mom
 

irene_b

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im new to the bnuts. joined about the time the stone with the horsehead on it was being discused. i found thad to be a enjoyable discussion. even made me laugh. i had a good feeling about that group who were discusing the topic. next a member suggested a contest match the tree with a pot. put a lot of his time and effort into it. gave a nice gift. but when it was over i had the feeling some people thought their pot should have been picked. made me think try to do something nice and look what happens. the yamadori discussion could have been a educational discusion. a member came up with a interesting topic and look what happens. the outstanding bonsai from nursery stock was another good topic. look what happened. the bnuts has has some good intelligent people in it . we are all bonsai people (i think) we enjoy the peace and harmony of nature. lets bring that to to the club and see what hieghts that takes us to. lets keep that good sense of humor going. lets make this a club everybody on this little planet wants to belong to. so smile when you answer the phone the person on the other end will know it. lets not let nicknmes we might get dinged with bother us. lets let members from others parts of the country or world write the way they the talk. it makes me smile. john
John, I agree that there are at times very good topics!
But I also know that some are just a rehash and no new thoughts are being shared for the advancement of learning...Most folks don't mind some of the chatter that goes along with the threads, but are you here to learn or just pass the time of day?
Irene
(MOM)
 
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Nice swan song.

I have seen many of these swan songs posted, even one or two by myself in the past and one thing I have learned is that the person posting them seldom, if ever, leaves the forum. They are more a cry for sympathy and support than a real goodbye.

No one wants to see anyone leave a forum, for whatever reason. 38 years of experience or 38 days, showing that experience or not. Even banning people can eventually lead to the demise of a forum, as we have witnessed in the past.

I think personally that Irene is taking the recent comments too personally, a few people, myself included, have mentioned in the past that they do not wish to be called "son," or that they are offended by someone trying to assume a mother role. I can speak only for myself when I say that I love my mother very much and I do not like someone assuming that I would have the need to or welcome calling anyone else mother.

Why not just respect their wishes instead of trying to justify why you should be allowed to call people son or why they should call you mother. If a hundred people do so, fine, I won't. I am however amazed, I would have bet that there wasn't a hundred active posters on bonsai forums, all together.

What if I fancied myself as the world's greatest lover and called everyone here Love-Drop and signed all my posts, "Your fantasy?" How would you feel about that, Love-Drop? Then when people complained, I would say that a hundred people call me their fantasy, and that I truly am the world's greatest lover, would it matter at all? Would it suddenly stop people from being offended?

The point is that mutual respect should be first, not what you want to be. There may well be people out there that need surrogate mothers, but I would guess there are far more that don't. What goes on in PM's or chat is private and you can do whatever you like there. But when it goes public, the story changes and the rules change. A public forum is not chat and as a such, all the readers must be considered, not just the few that need a surrogate mother figure.


That's my two cents on the issue, for what it's worth.


Will
 

irene_b

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Nice swan song.
I have seen many of these swan songs posted, even one or two by myself in the past and one thing I have learned is that the person posting them seldom, if ever, leaves the forum. They are more a cry for sympathy and support than a real goodbye.

You dish out enough for everyone! Don't link me with you!

No one wants to see anyone leave a forum, for whatever reason. 38 years of experience or 38 days, showing that experience or not. Even banning people can eventually lead to the demise of a forum, as we have witnessed in the past.

Most times banning is dang good and done for a good reason!

I think personally that Irene is taking the recent comments too personally, a few people, myself included, have mentioned in the past that they do not wish to be called "son," or that they are offended by someone trying to assume a mother role. I can speak only for myself when I say that I love my mother very much and I do not like someone assuming that I would have the need to or welcome calling anyone else mother.

Nope! Wrong again Willie-boy!

Why not just respect their wishes instead of trying to justify why you should be allowed to call people son or why they should call you mother. If a hundred people do so, fine, I won't. I am however amazed, I would have bet that there wasn't a hundred active posters on bonsai forums, all together.

What if I fancied myself as the world's greatest lover and called everyone here Love-Drop and signed all my posts, "Your fantasy?" How would you feel about that, Love-Drop? Then when people complained, I would say that a hundred people call me their fantasy, and that I truly am the world's greatest lover, would it matter at all? Would it suddenly stop people from being offended?


Whatever floats your boat, I for one don't care.

The point is that mutual respect should be first, not what you want to be.

I do agree on the Mutual Respect and all start off at that point.

There may well be people out there that need surrogate mothers, but I would guess there are far more that don't. What goes on in PM's or chat is private and you can do whatever you like there. But when it goes public, the story changes and the rules change. A public forum is not chat and as a such, all the readers must be considered, not just the few that need a surrogate mother figure.

You do missunderstand English terms don't you? I nor anyone else said they needed a surrogate mother.


That's my two cents on the issue, for what it's worth.
Will
Save your money for teachers Will.
Irene
 

irene_b

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Well, since you decided to toss out insults....


What has your 38 years in bonsai (with teachers) produced?
Will
Lots of Knowledge and Beautifull trees.
Now let it go Will.

Irene
 

irene_b

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Will, just for you.....All my trees were destroyed.
Irene
 
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