Montmorillonite clay granular vs diatomaceous earth

[tree4me]

I was talking to a neighbor who works on motorcycles and he mentioned he had seen my bonsai. While we were looking at my trees I mentioned wanting to use Napa 8822 to start some cuttings. This morning on the way out to work I found a bag of Thrifty sorb on my porch, a gift I guess. I looked it up and it is Montmorillonite clay granulars. We didn't discuss that Napa 8822 is diatomaceous earth. Anyway, is this a usable product for cuttings?

 

[M. Frary]

I was talking to a neighbor who works on motorcycles and he mentioned he had seen my bonsai. While we were looking at my trees I mentioned wanting to use Napa 8822 to start some cuttings. This morning on the way out to work I found a bag of Thrifty sorb on my porch, a gift I guess. I looked it up and it is Montmorillonite clay granulars. We didn't discuss that Napa 8822 is diatomaceous earth. Anyway, is this a usable product for cuttings?

Test it in water. If after a couple days it goes soft don't use it.

 

[tree4me]

Test it in water. If after a couple days it goes soft don't use it.

Ahhh, will do. I'll sift the fines and put some in a small bucket of water for a few days and monitor. Thanks Mike

 

[M. Frary]

Ahhh, will do. I'll sift the fines and put some in a small bucket of water for a few days and monitor. Thanks Mike

Glad to help. Hopefully it works out.
I wonder if what you have is the stuff called fullers earth.
I've heard of the stuff but don't know a thing about it.
Good luck.

 

[michaelj]

It should be fine for cuttings. I would not recommend it as a soil element for good trees, especially anything that won't be repotted for several years.

 

[milehigh_7]

Test it in water. If after a couple days it goes soft don't use it.

I would take some of it that you have in water and put it in the freezer then let it thaw and repeat a few times as well.

 

[sorce]

I wouldn't use it cuz if you take the Ill out you have moron.

Sorce

 

[Anthony]

You can sift and have a friend fire it in a kiln.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[W3rk]

Ahhh, will do. I'll sift the fines and put some in a small bucket of water for a few days and monitor. Thanks Mike

Any follow up from trying the Fuller's Earth? I'd like to know how it's worked out for you.

 

[sparklemotion]

I was talking to a neighbor who works on motorcycles and he mentioned he had seen my bonsai. While we were looking at my trees I mentioned wanting to use Napa 8822 to start some cuttings. This morning on the way out to work I found a bag of Thrifty sorb on my porch, a gift I guess. I looked it up and it is Montmorillonite clay granulars. We didn't discuss that Napa 8822 is diatomaceous earth. Anyway, is this a usable product for cuttings?

Thrifty-Sorb is calcined montmorillonite clay.

You know what else is calcined montmorillonite clay? Turface... Make of that what you will.

That being said... I'm curious about the particle size/shape of the Thrifty-Sorb product - can you take a picture with a dime or ruler or something for scale?

 

[milehigh_7]

I would not make much out of it. Turface is completely vitrified so is more like non-porous ceramic.

 

[sparklemotion]

At the risk of further contributing to the necromancy in this thread (I thought the first post was a couple months old, not more than a year):

Are you implying that there is a difference between "calcined" and "completely vitrified"? Or just stating that Turface (and its various equivalents) are un/less suitable soil components?

If the former -- I'm curious to learn more about the difference.

 

[SU2]

Thrifty-Sorb is calcined montmorillonite clay.

You know what else is calcined montmorillonite clay? Turface... Make of that what you will.

That being said... I'm curious about the particle size/shape of the Thrifty-Sorb product - can you take a picture with a dime or ruler or something for scale?

Whoa neat!!!! Am going to see if I can find this, have been wanting to try turface!! It seems like an aggregate that's somewhere in-between DE and lava-rock (would you agree?), if the particle size is right I'd love to get some! I currently use DE/perlite as a good % of my mixes, the DE is regular 8822 so pretty small, I 'offset' that a bit by only using 'coarse' perlite (home depot has these ~$17 bags of Vigoro 'coarse perlite' that's got substantially larger particles than the miracle-gro perlite)

Am w/ you in hoping @tree4me can post some pics for the site, I'd love to find another 'off-label' product that's a good, available aggregate (would love akadama but would never pay for it ;/ )

 

[M. Frary]

Car quest brand of floor dry is fullers earth.

 

[Aiki_Joker]

At the risk of further contributing to the necromancy in this thread (I thought the first post was a couple months old, not more than a year):

Are you implying that there is a difference between "calcined" and "completely vitrified"? Or just stating that Turface (and its various equivalents) are un/less suitable soil components?

If the former -- I'm curious to learn more about the difference.

Complete vitrification seals the particle so it won't absorb water. Like glazing a pot in a kiln. The particles can be made quicker or slower drying based on the application. A gradient of vitrification can be achieved by varying the kiln temperature.

 

[Aiki_Joker]

Whoa neat!!!! Am going to see if I can find this, have been wanting to try turface!! It seems like an aggregate that's somewhere in-between DE and lava-rock (would you agree?), if the particle size is right I'd love to get some! I currently use DE/perlite as a good % of my mixes, the DE is regular 8822 so pretty small, I 'offset' that a bit by only using 'coarse' perlite (home depot has these ~$17 bags of Vigoro 'coarse perlite' that's got substantially larger particles than the miracle-gro perlite)

Am w/ you in hoping @tree4me can post some pics for the site, I'd love to find another 'off-label' product that's a good, available aggregate (would love akadama but would never pay for it ;/ )

On what metric? Water stuff or ion stuff? These components all have different water holding and offloading capacities, together with the ion exchange differences for holding ferts. Other stuff too like how they breakdown over time. Hope you got some. Good to experiment with them and see how they work. Different with different climates, waters and plants.

 

[Michael P]

Safe-T-Sorb from Tractor Supply is low fired montmorillonite clay. I use it for most of my medium and small size trees, and it works very well. It is very absorbent but drains well, and does not break down for several years at least. From what I can tell, it also has a high cation exchange capacity so holds nutrients. I usually use a 2:1 mix of STS and compost.

 

[substratum]

Safe-T-Sorb from Tractor Supply is low fired montmorillonite clay. I use it for most of my medium and small size trees, and it works very well. It is very absorbent but drains well, and does not break down for several years at least. From what I can tell, it also has a high cation exchange capacity so holds nutrients. I usually use a 2:1 mix of STS and compost.

So, the STS doesn't go soft?

 

[coh]

Some of these low fired/soft clays might perform well in a warm climate, but not so well in an area that gets a lot of freeze/thaw cycles. I have purchased a few of these over the years and when I do the soak/freeze test, they all seem to degrade pretty quickly. Haven't tried them in a container, though. Maybe I'll do some experiments with some extra plants next spring.

 

[Michael P]

It does not go soft for me. But as coh points out, I am in a warm climate (freaking hot right now actually!) where we don't get much freeze-thaw. And I repot fairly often, usually no longer than every two years. As a side note, I use STS as a substrate ion my planted aquaria too, and it does not degrade in tanks that have been set up for years.