Moving branches

Dwight

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Now this has me stumped good. I have a shimpacu that has a neat first branch except it is way too low. The second and third branches are junk soooooo...I'm thinking why not get rid of the second and third branch completely and move the first dranch to where I want it ? I'm somewhat familiar with tha technique of drilling a tapered hole and then tapering the branch to fit. But can it really be that simple ????
 

irene_b

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Now this has me stumped good. I have a shimpacu that has a neat first branch except it is way too low. The second and third branches are junk soooooo...I'm thinking why not get rid of the second and third branch completely and move the first dranch to where I want it ? I'm somewhat familiar with tha technique of drilling a tapered hole and then tapering the branch to fit. But can it really be that simple ????

How about a picture so we can see it?
Irene
 

Graydon

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I have done similar things to pines - with some success. I have no idea how the juniper will respond but I would think it would work well. I have also had some luck with the notch and flap method. I cut a notch that is equal on both sides, clean it with a very sharp knife and fold it over so the cambium matches and bind very well. I finish by sealing it with a good putty and leaving it alone for a year.

I would be interested in seeing a photo and perhaps some illustration to see how far you want to make it move.
 
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You might be better served to make some cuttings and root them, then graft normally with the rooted cuttings.
 

Tachigi

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I'm somewhat familiar with that technique of drilling a tapered hole and then tapering the branch to fit. But can it really be that simple ????
Hiya Dwight, You sound like your talking about a thread graft. Unless someone can correct me here on a method that I'm unaware of, this I believe can't be done with a juniper. The question being, how would you get the foliage through the hole with out stripping it or fatally damaging it? I'm also not sure your going to be able to taper a branch with out damaging cambium. It would be best to find a scion with natural taper if you could do it with a juniper. If you feel that you want to graft. You might take the approach graft method for a higher success rate percentage.
 

Dwight

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Yep , that bes it ! We used something similar when I was in college and made our own Christmas trees outa pinon pine. It worked on about 50% of the trys is my fading memory serves me correct.
 

Graydon

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Oops - my bad. I thought you were trying to make a thick branch bend. I have see a technique where you drill out the 'inside' material of a branch to make it more flexible to bend. Never mind my earlier comment.

I have thought about that very Lee Valley tool for some pine plug type grafts. I can't imagine it would be better than a typical bud graft so I decided against it for now.

Why would a thread graft not work on a juniper?
 
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Well, I'll be....I have heard of this method and seen an article (perhaps in Bonsai Today) of folks doing this, although in BT they first grafted new roots onto the branch in question to support it while it was taking. Didn't know they had developed it to this level...

In my opinion, there would be two problems with the pencil sharpener thingy. First, you wouldn't get a clean enough cut around the scion, you would get some damaged tissue. Second, I would think the cutters would gum up pretty quickly.

Since almost 100% of shimpaku cuttings should take, and almost 100% of shimpaku grafts should take, I don't see the need to take the only branch you care about and try this.
 

Tachigi

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Now I seen it all ..... first time for me on the pencil sharpener whatchamacallit. I wonder what rocket scientist stayed up all night thinking that one up. As Chris said I would be a bit leery on the surgical style cut needed for a graft. However I guess anythings possible.
I have a shimpacu that has a neat first branch except it is way too low. The second and third branches are junk soooooo...I'm thinking why not get rid of the second and third branch completely and move the first dranch to where I want it ?
Out of curiosity, if your removing three branches to do away with them or move them to a new location do you have any other foliage that will be unmolested?

Edit: I forgot to say, Dwight best of luck. If it works please let me know, I am intrigued :)
 
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Graydon

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In my opinion, there would be two problems with the pencil sharpener thingy. First, you wouldn't get a clean enough cut around the scion, you would get some damaged tissue. Second, I would think the cutters would gum up pretty quickly.
I may agree on both points, however a new manual pencil sharpener (the block kind with one single blade set at a skewed angle to the pencil) may be sharp enough out of the box to do a few scion. The cutter could be used to bore the hole and then the cambium layer could be cleaned up a bit with a scalpel or other sharp, pointed instrument.

I just ordered one. I have a pine I wanted to try this thing on - nothing ventured nothing gained.


Since almost 100% of shimpaku cuttings should take, and almost 100% of shimpaku grafts should take, I don't see the need to take the only branch you care about and try this.
I could be way off on this but getting cuttings to strike with success and getting a graft to take are tow completely different things. One (the cutting) involves getting roots to grow on a cut branch, generally induced with a hormone such as IBA. The other (the graft) involves aligning the cambium layers in a direct path and keeping the match in tight contact until scar tissue forms and other cell level connections.

The old unwanted branches should be left in place while one graft is performed. It must have other foliage in place to keep living while the graft takes and begins to grow.
 

Dwight

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Actually there are five branches before the apex mass , all about 3/8 " in dia. I was just thinking that a branch from this tree going back on this tree was a good match and had a good chance of working. I'm in no hurry to try it as I'm really hoping for bacb budding on branch 3 to solve the problem for me ( allow me to use this branch where it is ). I originally got the tree from Brent at Evergreen and just wasn't really happy with the branch structure but really like the tree....go figure. Sooooo I've been rumminating on possible solutions. Someone on another forum suggested grafting but got shot down pretty fast so we never got a chance to discuss it.

Like I said I know it will work cause I've done it but that was another life and my hands were much steadier then. I've since seen a tapered awl that was sharp as hell and was used to turn a stepp drilled hole onto a tapered hole. A good utility knife should be able to do the branch. Just an idea. I'll need to get pretty desperate to actually do it.

Graydon , when you get yours give us a review and send me a PM so I'll know to look for it. This could be a neet way to rearrange a tree. Wonder if the oldtimers would call this cheatin' ?
 

Graydon

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Graydon , when you get yours give us a review and send me a PM so I'll know to look for it. This could be a neet way to rearrange a tree. Wonder if the oldtimers would call this cheatin' ?
Why sure. Sounds like an article.
 

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