0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
Now my logical, thinking side just needs to convince the emotional bitch in my head
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Mugo #3
- Thread starter 0soyoung
- Start date
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That, and some tweezer work. Pulling the downward growing needles, and the old needles would thin it, and tame it a bit.
0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
After much ado, my logical side finally won out
The path I was on was clearly not working. No regrets, but I continue to feel lost.
My petty gripe is that I spent a great deal of time removing downward going needles - a few days pass, I take this pic, and what do I see? This tree tends to produce a two-stage flush similar to some shore pines. The first flush is long needles, then bud re-extends with microscopic ones with next year's bud capping it off by the time of the summer solstice. I am (and maybe we are) accustomed to seeing pine canopies be like JBP, so maybe figuring out how to make this tree produce shorter needles will help.
The path I was on was clearly not working. No regrets, but I continue to feel lost.
My petty gripe is that I spent a great deal of time removing downward going needles - a few days pass, I take this pic, and what do I see? This tree tends to produce a two-stage flush similar to some shore pines. The first flush is long needles, then bud re-extends with microscopic ones with next year's bud capping it off by the time of the summer solstice. I am (and maybe we are) accustomed to seeing pine canopies be like JBP, so maybe figuring out how to make this tree produce shorter needles will help.
Yep, more tweezer work is called for. Get those downward growing needles. And not just on the bottom of the pads. Do it everywhere. It will thin the canopy so that sun can get in, and it helps keep the interior twigs healthy. Which will induce more budding. It’s a paradox: pulling needles (thinning) will eventually result in a denser canopy!After much ado, my logical side finally won out
The path I was on was clearly not working. No regrets, but I continue to feel lost.
My petty gripe is that I spent a great deal of time removing downward going needles - a few days pass, I take this pic, and what do I see? This tree tends to produce a two-stage flush similar to some shore pines. The first flush is long needles, then bud re-extends with microscopic ones with next year's bud capping it off by the time of the summer solstice. I am (and maybe we are) accustomed to seeing pine canopies be like JBP, so maybe figuring out how to make this tree produce shorter needles will help.
Go ahead and remove that stump. Apply putty type cut paste.
Bolero
Omono
I think you've out thought yourself and taken too much advice literally….
The Mugo pictures on post #32 are really the Best...they show a Mugo with a really full foliage that compliment a Beautiful Trunk...I don't want to say you've ruined your Mugo, however you have overworked it and the Foliage looks really Sparse, not pleasant to look at...
JMHO
Chuck
The Mugo pictures on post #32 are really the Best...they show a Mugo with a really full foliage that compliment a Beautiful Trunk...I don't want to say you've ruined your Mugo, however you have overworked it and the Foliage looks really Sparse, not pleasant to look at...
JMHO
Chuck
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Actually you have moved this tree a long way in the right direction. I think I have mentioned that for the most part a good Mugo bonsai is not usually produced without doing some drastic work. Under nursery cultivation they are over grown, over fertilized, and over potted. They tend to have too many branches, in fact so many where most growers, just starting out, are loath to remove any of them until time reveals that the good tree is buried or abandoned deep down in a profile that will never make a good bonsai. A profile of over grown branches growing up and down, in whorls that need to be dealt with or forever ignored and looked upon as the every-day Mugo Bonsai that for years we have come to expect. Whorled branches with big knuckles and inverse taper all over the tree, tangled roots at the surface and at best an amateurish tree that has been styled through fear. Mugos make great bonsai but you have to spend the first couple of session with them dealing with these issues. More to follow if interest is shown. It may not be pleasant to look at now but it will--- in a couple of years look exponentially better than the tree you ignore will look during the same period when you are asking what to do with it.
I have to disagree with this, Bolero. Oftentimes, trees “in training” DON’T look their best. That’s Why they’re in training. To get better.
To wit: a freshly decandled JBP looks pretty bad. You’ve just cut off all the fresh young foliage, and now what’s left is the old foliage that’s on the way out.
Also, trees that have recently been “cut back”, and long leggy growth removed, leaving short stubby branches. Which will bud out into many more branches than were there prior to the cutback.
These “thin and cut back” sessions ARE the primary skill of bonsai maintenance. Absolutely necessary!
Bonsai trees do not stay “show ready” all the time. They need to grow out to stay healthy. Then, they need a cut back.
Continuous pinching in an attempt to maintain an unchanging appearance is the wrong way to go. Even though it was the way we were all taught back in the day!
Japonicus
Masterpiece
Cut back, thin, grow out, repeat repeat repeat. Precisely. Perpetual.
I don't know many of the words in 0soyoungs vocabulary, but perpetual, that I know. I can even say it right.
Thanks Adair. I don't have a show ready tree one, but this concept, if I learn nothing else here
was weakening my trees.
I show interest.
I have to agree with Leo @0soyoung I don't see a thin trunk without taper.
I like your Mugo #3. I know how difficult it was to remove that lower branch when we're
trying to compact things, but the upper one just was not the right one to go.
You increased taper. Very nice
How tall is this Mugo?
0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
Thanks for your honest opinion. I agree that it was at its best, so far, in post #32, but that was a state I could not maintain mor get this tree back to. My take away is that it definitely looked better with a pointy apex rather than a rounded one.
On the new path, I think I want the apex to be farther left so that it is more 'dynamic', meaning leaning like a bi-/motor-cycle going around a corner. I think it will help to make this bugger smile back at me. Maybe not, but I'm going to find out! We, if you've got the patience to ride along.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
As long as we want to play lets take a look. I usually do not take a stub all the way to the trunk this early but in this case if there is some die back along a life line it might help improve the design. The first branch on the left should be torqued down to about 30*. There is also a stub or a cut branch between this branch and the stub below in inside loop of the trunk that should be dealt with to expose the movement of the trunk.
0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
About 16 inches.
River's Edge
Masterpiece
Clearly out of step with other suggestions, however i would consider a scion graft on the left side of the trunk. Long term for sure but if successful, would thicken base of trunk , change the overall look and provide a very different design option. Also thin the spot where the current stub is just below the canopy on the left. This is along the lines of vances suggestion.After much ado, my logical side finally won out
The path I was on was clearly not working. No regrets, but I continue to feel lost.
My petty gripe is that I spent a great deal of time removing downward going needles - a few days pass, I take this pic, and what do I see? This tree tends to produce a two-stage flush similar to some shore pines. The first flush is long needles, then bud re-extends with microscopic ones with next year's bud capping it off by the time of the summer solstice. I am (and maybe we are) accustomed to seeing pine canopies be like JBP, so maybe figuring out how to make this tree produce shorter needles will help.
0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
If I focus on the trunk line and making it a more dynamic image, I think I want to repot it more like this 
. I think I could do this next August as it has pretty well adapted to the present tilt.
Maybe a bit more tilt ????
It seems more dynamic and would visually shorten the lower trunk as well as fake a fatter nebari. But, is it going too far?
Here they are, respectively, with the trunk line I see highlighted.
What do you think @River's Edge? Might this address the lower trunk issue adequately instead of a graft?
. I think I could do this next August as it has pretty well adapted to the present tilt.Maybe a bit more tilt ????
It seems more dynamic and would visually shorten the lower trunk as well as fake a fatter nebari. But, is it going too far?Here they are, respectively, with the trunk line I see highlighted.
What do you think @River's Edge? Might this address the lower trunk issue adequately instead of a graft?
0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
I agree. I'll just have to see how much I can do without making a glaring scar there.
Orion_metalhead
Masterpiece
I really like this little mugo but I see a different outcome then what a lot of others have suggested.
I think the lack of foliage on the left and the position in the pot is too centered. I would repot it further to the right, with it leaning slightly more to the left and down, and growing the right side out more, with a shift in the apex ultimately sitting straight above the nebari.
I think doing so balances out the design, gives more interest to trunk, and gives it the look of a history of almost teetering over, but holding on to the earth.
EDIT: as I wrote that you posted the virts of what I was thinking. I like it that way.
I think the lack of foliage on the left and the position in the pot is too centered. I would repot it further to the right, with it leaning slightly more to the left and down, and growing the right side out more, with a shift in the apex ultimately sitting straight above the nebari.
I think doing so balances out the design, gives more interest to trunk, and gives it the look of a history of almost teetering over, but holding on to the earth.
EDIT: as I wrote that you posted the virts of what I was thinking. I like it that way.
The sooner you make the cut, the sooner it will heal over!
River's Edge
Masterpiece
I think it is an improvement. And certainly an option. The changing the angle of the lower left branch would be even more important.
However it does not address the overall issues in my perspective! Lack of lower branches, all from the top. Shape of the trunk, it just seems rather uniform in thickness with a bit of reverse taper just above the site i would graft. ( apologies as pictures rarely do a tree justice)
Perhaps ask yourself this question? How would you feel if you had a branch just under the canopy to the right and one just 1/3 of the way up on the left? Then what if as they grew they thickened the portio just below where they came off the trunk?
River's Edge
Masterpiece
Branch that size with a bit of elongation to thin the edge profile should heal quite nicely!
Orion_metalhead
Masterpiece
Virt of my thoughts.
Orion_metalhead
Masterpiece
Long term, maybe even continue it from there downward and cascade off to the right.
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